Protecting children (sons) from the influence of porn

[ConcernedMim]

I have posted this in Feminism Chat because I want to protect my sons and I want to protect girls they might date as they get older. They are currently pre-school / primary school age.

So, I have never watched / seen much porn. I’m a woman in my 40s. Many years ago I saw the odd video at a friend’s house and it seemed to me to be bored women being shagged over the kitchen counter by the pizza delivery guy they’d let into the house 2 mins earlier. Not my cup of tea but didn’t seem massively harmful to viewers (although I know the women involved may not have had many choices).

But I have read that porn has changed - it’s more violent and more misogynistic. Or maybe it always was but I never saw it. It’s also easier to access due to the internet. And the damage that can do to girls, and to boys.

My children are young but I assume at some point their friends will introduce them to porn or they’ll find it themselves. How do I help them see that it’s not a realistic view of sex? I can’t imagine they’ll listen to their mum. Obviously I’ll try to talk about consent, and I already do (‘stop tickling your brother, he’s not enjoying it anymore’) but will that be enough? I try to encourage friendships with girls but the older one isn’t really interested, he just wants to be friends with boys.

Their dad and I are married and I don’t think he uses porn. If that’s relevant.

Anyone got any advice for me? Thank you.

There was a very good and horrifying thread a while ago about porn plus a couple of threads with similar titles - I'll try to hunt them out unless someone beats me to it. @R0wantrees?

Because yes I think this is very important.

My main piece of advice is to talk about sex and body parts from an early age (age appropriately). The claire raynor body book should be brought back into print imo.

Here is one:

Are there resources to educate our sons about porn? www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3151070-are-there-resources-to-educate-our-sons-about-porn

Discussion thread regarding porn www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3172324-Discussion-thread-regarding-porn-trigger-warning-contains-distressing-content-links

This is probably a better starting point for you though op:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/sonshinemagazine.com/magazine/teaching-small-children-about-consent%3fformat=amp

Gail Dines has a number of resources on Culture Reframed precisely for this purposes. The website is really worth a look.

We know through friends a couple living in Sweden, both teachers. She is Swedish and he is from the U.K. our friends recently talked about how very open they are about sex - the mum was giggling with the son (around 10) about the sex noises a character in a game were making (sims? Mine craft?! No idea!)

By my and our friends' standards, this was a bit much, however when we thought it through (and from what the U.K. born Swedish dad says) it comes from a place of honesty, openness and normality of normal loving sex rather than hidden, secretive, shameful even or 'bad'. Demystifying it while teaching respect and consent are probably key.

The first time I taught sex Ed in primary school it hit home how much this is about child protection and the teaching of respect and consent.

Thanks SwearyG I did t know that.

My son is a tiny baby so it feels a bit strange to be thinking about this - but I agree with you that it's so important and something that worries me for the future. I have no advice to offer from experience, obviously, but what I think is (who knows how this will work out!):

1. We will try and be open and casual about sex as he gets older, so it's not a taboo topic - but I think the discussion about porn not being real life etc has to come primarily from his dad. Part of the problem is that the narrative around porn (and other parts of the sex industry, like lap dancing) is that women don't 'get it', so I think they need a male figure telling them there are other ways to see it than the mainstream media one.
2. Be realistic. A teenage boy with access to it is going to look at porn and making him feel ashamed of that desire isn't going to stop him but might give him a complex. The aim is to make him think critically about where porn comes from and the messages it conveys, not to stop him ever seeing it. And ideally (this must be so, so hard and potentially awkward!) you want him to know that fantasies and masturbation are fine and great - it's the porn industry that's wrong, not his sexual urges.
3. I think it surely has to be part of a larger project to counter the messages of toxic masculinity - no boys don't cry stuff, modelling gender equality in the household, etc.

This is based on things I've read and observing the men I know (in their early 30s - so all with ready access to porn in their youth but not at the young age of today's children), but as I say it's entirely theoretical - I have no idea how it'll work out for me and, more importantly, for DS.

Having been a teenage girl who was left unsupervised on the internet and also having a stepson who looked at some quite horrifying stuff online, whilst in the same room as his little sister I worry about this a lot.

Personally I am not letting them have smartphones / iPods or internet enabled devices until they are 16 and finished their GCSEs.

There will be a desktop PC in the dining room and they will have to take turns to do homework.

There will be plenty of appropriate dialogue with my son and daughters in the teenage years. I don’t doubt they will still see the odd bit of porn but no way am I letting them spend hours and hours looking a yhis stuff and sending naked pictures to god knows who online.

Parents who think they have internet controls in place so the kids are safe are deluding themselves.

I will be the most hated parent and the kids will have their basic mobile phones and maybe they will be social outcasts. But not having access to porn or bitchy/bullying social media all hours of the day will imo make them better adults and I hope they will thank me for it in the end.

And for anyone who says kids need to know technology to survive and therefore have to start early need to remember it is designed to be quick to learn and even though we don’t let my 4 year old use it, at school he is already exceeding his expectations in technology.

Children are innocent, trusting and have fragile minds. The internet is not a good place for them to learn about life.

Thanks all. That’s really helpful.

I have had a quick look at those links and will read in depth.

I agree that the message probably most usefully comes from men setting a good example. My husband is good man but shy and much less comfortable talking about sex than I am. But I will broach with him.

I will be the most hated parent and the kids will have their basic mobile phones and maybe they will be social outcasts. But not having access to porn or bitchy/bullying social media all hours of the day will imo make them better adults and I hope they will thank me for it in the end.

It won't protect them, though. They will still see porn on friends' devices. They will use their friends' phones and accounts to post on SM whenever they are together. They will still be gossiped about on other people's SM accounts.

I agree with restricting access, having done similar with my own dc, just don't fall into the trap of thinking that this will entirely protect your dc.

captain - are you not worried about creating forbidden fruit? I ask not as a criticism but because I've also thought about it - but I keep thinking about my friends as teenagers, and my experience is that those who weren't allowed to do things like go to parties, drink, etc. still did them but in a much less safe way because they were sneaking around and couldn't talk to their parents about problems that did arise. I had quite permissive parents and that worked well for me and I would ideally like a similar atmosphere in my home - but then I worry that the pressures that will be on my child will be much greater than in my own teens, and so maybe that model isn't adequate to the challenges of the internet and social media.

Has anyone mentioned the Cup of Tea Analogy? Google it. A very good animated video comparing sex to a cup of tea. It's an excellent resource, and suitable for any age that understands about having sex.

Captain, my ds's school held an evening for parents regarding e safety. It really was excellent and showed how you can completely max security up to the nines across all technology in the house (phones included) while teaching them about responsible online use.

We will be employing it all when ds gets better at spelling and knows what google is.

Of course they will still see porn. I am not stupid, I even said they will come across it. But I am not letting them spend hours and hours online for whatever reason and porn is part of it. My children already know about how babies are made, periods etc. Because they ask me questions and I answer them truthfully. I teach my children to respect others.

Generations of humans have all experienced adolescence without being exposed to porn, or even being allowed to be alone with the opposite sex. And guess what no harm was done. I don’t think growing up not having viewed a woman being fisted or anal sex as being the norm is going to do my kids any harm. Oh yes I am sure they will still see the odd bit of it, but not night after night. How are you going to stop children seeing a porn clip sent to their smart phones or stop them taking naked selfies?

When my children reach sexual maturity then of course then their sexual life / porn exposure is up to them.

Please also don’t forget porn videos place unrealistic expectations on boys as well as girls. Not all boys will have huge penises and go for hours on end, producing the perfect ‘come shot’ three times in a row.

I would much rather my children discovered sex with their partners when they are 16, much like most of us did.

Thank you for this thread and links, this is something I am also very worried about.

Just tell them the truth: Porn is to real sex as WWE wrestling is to real fighting; It's fake, contrived, if you do it at home you'll end up seriously hurting people and if you think copying it makes you competent you'll end up looking real fucking stupid.

Just tell them the truth: Porn is to real sex as WWE wrestling is to real fighting

This is basically what we said.

Gail Dines has a number of resources on Culture Reframed precisely for this purposes. The website is really worth a look.

I haven't seen this before, very useful thanks Sweary

I chat about it with my sons (within reason, according to their age) I have made it very clear that you cannot know whether there is true consent in the sex industry and that the current porn is not a reflection of how women want to be treated and is unlikely to win them any love or respect. I am not banning devices - in my experience working with teens they are more likely to be shown something on someone else's phone/device anyway. I have encouraged them to be open about things they don't understand. If I see things I think aren't right I talk to them - not porn but for example it is a well word joke in our house about the differences in adverts aimed at girls and boys and I hear them joke amongst themselves about it because I spoke to them and made it an amusing observation. Now they see the way boys and girls are addressed differently as silly and unnecessary. Being open (with discretion obviously) helps.

I'll be reading the resource Sweary posted with interest - though not right now as I need to get on with some work. I think my procrastination for the morning is over now

*well worn joke

Gods’ honest truth: I have a 2 year old son and the terror of having to raise him knowing what type of porn there is out there caused me severe antenatal depression to the point I wanted an abortion. I couldn’t see how I can protect him from seeing all that filmed abuse and rape and stop him for perceiving it as normal sex. Thank you for all the links etc. I think we as feminists need to find a really joined up way of dealing with this so we aren’t raising another generation of porn sick abusers.

I think, as well as porn-specific strategies, it helps to have overarching peer pressure strategies. So that they not only have the self confidence to say "nah, not my thing mate" when their friends are passing around porn videos, but also "not getting involved with that shit" if there's bullying or something else going on.

It's almost a version of consent for boys in a way - encouraging them to be able to say no to peer pressure.

It's almost a version of consent for boys in a way - encouraging them to be able to say no to peer pressure.

Excellent point, I do encourage my boys to say no.

Also worth having conversations and discussions - pre-planned if either of you find it difficult to articulate about this stuff! - with your DH in front of them. For example, DH and I would have had a discussion about the recent case of the manslaughter by sex-gone-wrong case, where the defendant got a short sentence of just six years. You don't have to actually try and involve them. Just have the topic discussed in their earshot.

I too set out with good intentions to keep my sons away from social media etc. But it's very hard when they reach secondary and have electronic devices/phones.

My two boys (12) use Whatsapp for school groups and play Fortnite etc.

I try to be open, as I agree that keeping matters secret can lead to strange reactions to sex (as indeed can too much exposure)
My PILs are like the puritans off Blackadder and DH can be prudish at times, so I make sure these issues are talked about 'normally' rather than as some taboo.

I always talk about the female perspective and use adult language where I can.

It's not exactly something every teen boy wants to discuss with their mother, but if they see I'm not embarrassed to talk about sex and hear me talk about the exploitation of women then I'm hoping this may have some influence.

I just don't know. Somebody mentioned a shy and retiring partner upthread. My ex was like this, yet didn't stop him accessing porn while I was asleep. There is no 'type'.