WtF can i do about this? Lecherous men harrasing my daighter, to the extent that she doesnt want to go out on her own!

[Moanslice]

Any advice massively welcom. My dd has just turned 13. She is 6ft tall and looks 16/17. When she goes out she get cat called, propositioned, chatted up... maybe 8 times out of 10. So, she has stopped leaving the house

I persuaded her to take the dog out today. Within 10 minutes she had a man kerb crawling her from behind. She said was he saw her face he must have realised how young she is and drove off

She cant NOT ever leave the house on her own, but this is awful. She isnt the kind of girl that would tell them to fuck off. Or say anything

Royally pissed off

I’m sorry, OP. It’s shit and I don’t know what the answer is. You’ve been given some excellent advice here. My attention from men started when I was around 12/13, and you just aren’t equipped to fend it off, for h most part, at that age.

Does she have an MP3 player or music on her phone? I like to listen to music quite loud on my headphones when I'm walking anywhere so I don't react when men beep/whistle/yell at me.
I've had it a lot over the years. We really shouldn't have to modify our behaviour and dress to avoid harassment. I don't think it works either, I've been harassed in a long coat with jeans on.
In my early 20s, I used to dread walking a certain way to work past a building site, because I'd get harassed every single time. It was a particularly hot summer that year, but I always felt uncomfortable wearing a t-shirt and calf length skirt.

I honestly wouldn't encourage her to yell back at them - either you're the type to be able to do that (effectively), or you're not.

The last thing you want is for her to be a figure of fun. Or worse.

And yes. The worst thing about it is how you're made to feel when it happens.

Completely and utterly ignoring is the only way to handle it. Don't let them think you've heard them, are bothered by them, or have even realised they're alive.

Oh yes. Ear phones are a great idea. She doesn't even need to have music on if she wants to be aware of her surroundings, but just wearing them signals she can't hear them so not to expect a response.

A young woman at my uni used to wear those big headphones all the time. I thought they looked really cool on her! When we made friends she confided in me that she was really shy and a lot of the time she didn't even have any music on, she nust didn't want to talk to most people. It was very effective. I'd never have guessed!

The headphones thing. If she is listening to music she still needs to be aware of her surroundings. I got hassled a lot aged 11 onwards. I looked very young, dressed in school uniform or an encompassing dowdy anorak, didn’t matter. A couple of the incidents involved cars coming up beside me, driver stayed put with the motor running with his passenger getting out to approach me. One opened the back door before walking up to me and asked what a nice girl like me was doing walking down the street. think I was about to be bundled in but I had my friends dog with me who was sniffing around behind a wall. I said, come on Sonny, and the guy said shit, ran round, slammed the door and they drove off.I think he thought I was with a man hence the swift departure. My point is she needs to be aware of her surroundings.

Tell the police. Kerb crawling paedophiles in the area will get their attention.

"My attention from men started when I was around 12/13, and you just aren’t equipped to fend it off, for h most part, at that age."

This is why they prefer younger girls, less likely to know what to do, less likely to tell anyone, tell police etc.

I'm still not convinced the police would be interested ? I mean if I rang the police and said some books approached my 11yo and said whatever they're not going to do anything surely? We don't know who he is, and it's not illegal to talk to people..

I have little confidence in the police so may have a skewed view. Also I'm the met, I think different forces are different.

Ear phones are NOT a good idea, in my view.

Someone wearing earphones is more vulnerable to being surprised and shocked, because they aren't alert to what's going on around them.

You only have to look at the stories behind street crimes to notice the number who happened to be wearing earphones before being attacked or exposed to, or robbed of bikes, phones, bags, items of clothing and jewellery.

There are two things going on here (1) How to free children from inappropriate and threatening behaviour from adults and (2) how to deal with predators

Going back to the OP - we've talked about the first aspect. Perhaps we need to look at ways of shining a light on the second aspect.

I think there is a need to raise awareness of how these dirty men work and how they are making our daughter's and grandaughters' lives more difficult than they ought to be.

"Everyday paedophilia" will only be a thing and stigmatised when people like Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 give it airtime.

How about it, Jeremy?

I love wearing earphones.

The fact that women are told to avoid them and men can do whatever they like (and if they are attacked it's the attackers fault) irritates me. So many rules to follow, if toy tried to follow all of them you'd never be able to leave the house.

Not aimed at you pam I just wish we could fucking well get on with things without all this stuff.

Someone wearing earphones is more vulnerable to being surprised and shocked, because they aren't alert to what's going on around them.

My shy friend told me she didn't even have anything playing most of the time. She used them so people wouldn't talk to her.

And it worked - you assumed she couldn't hear and didn't include her in conversations.

If one of the things OP's DD is finding it hard is not knowing how to respond, or feeling pressured into responding to these creeps, wearing earphones may help her feel bolder in just ignoring them, and also maybe, just maybe make them not try so hard to get her attention if they think she can't hear them.

Men are told to avoid earphones too.

In fact, boys and men are more likely to be robbed while wearing earphones than girls and women. Everything that we say to females about being alert and aware of what's around them, applies to males too.

Sometimes when you ignore them they come after you though.

There's no universal solution as each man is different, has different intentions, different aggression levels etc.

This is why we get these 9mile long lists of "rules" that circulate - is because whatever we do it will NOT protect us if we cross the path of the wrong bloke.

The problem is MEN. We cannot solve this. All we can do is individually try and protect ourselves using what is often advice that restricts our lives and will not make any difference if a bloke decides to target us. And of course if we do manage to protect ourselves - they just atatck soeone else.

I am sick to death of the whoel thing.

I took a very fatalistic approach when I was an older teen and just did whatever the fuck I liked, on the basis that if something bad was going to happen then it was going to happen and I wasn't going to not do things I wanted because of some vague constant threat. It is horrible to live as prey. That's just me though - not advocating that for anyone else.

I have never seen a list of rules for men and boys to "keep safe" like the ones I have seen for women and girls. I have never seen an 8foot high ad in the tube station with a man's screaming face to encourage them to use licenced cabs. And so on. These things all seem to focus on women and girls - our behaviour, our drinking, our friends, our cab journeys, our walking alone, our victimisation. We are told that men are attacked more so where is all this shit for them, huh?

I took a very fatalistic approach when I was an older teen and just did whatever the fuck I liked, on the basis that if something bad was going to happen then it was going to happen and I wasn't going to not do things I wanted because of some vague constant threat. It is horrible to live as prey. That's just me though - not advocating that for anyone else

Yeah, that's what I did too as a teen. Until an incident with some really nasty guys intimidating me from their car. I was lucky to escape from (by running and hiding behind a van while they trawled the street trying to find where I was. Terrifying and a lucky escape).

My boyfriend had even offered to walk me home but it was really late, I could see he was tired and I was only 5 minutes from home so I insisted I'd be fine.

That incident changed my attitude. I realised how vulnerable I was and that I needed to take safety seriously.

Well it's up to you. Like I say - I don't recommend that approach for anyone else - everyone should do how they feel.

What angers me is that whatever we do, if something happens, we will in the eyes of society have done something wrong somewhere, no matter how closely we follow the rules - as women and girls are always to blame.

So I thought fuck it. I was young - it's not something I'd do now.

I had to do the hiding from men in a car thing as well - made me miss the bus the fuckers (I was waiting at the bus stop when they came).

It bothers me that we all have such similar stories - so many men must be doing this stuff.

I am reading and thinking...

(There is no disguising her in baggy clothes. She is very definitely female;shape, way she walks)

It was only a thought - at 6ft I thought they might be fooled.

Shame.

Could you get a much bigger dog?!

Mind you then she'd have to take it everywhere with her.

i dont' know what to say. I didn't know when I was a girl and I still don't. Because there isn't an answer, there is no way that girls can look or behave that will stop this.

Why is it acceptabel in society for men to behave this way towards children? I mean if you say it to someone they so oh that's bad BUT the laws the police the general consensus is that this is a "women's issue" and it's up to us to sort out but how can we??? It's not like it's hidden - multiple massive outpourings of stories over the last years highlighting this specific thing.

It also isn't acceptable to do it to adults but strangely it all calms down once you start to look like one.

They target young girls deliverately. How is this not recognised as a problem in our society? Even after rotherham and so on?

Honestly, here we all are. Why isn't this picked up?

What chance do 13 year olds today have if this isn't on Jeremy Vine, if ministers aren't being quizzed on Today about how this can go on day in, day out?

I never thought of calling the police once. Not ever. I'm was a pretty confident, bolshie, articulate, straight A student. Why didn't I call the police? Presumably because I didn't think it was a crime. It was normal.

The police need posters everywhere saying that sexually harassing children by approaching them, gesturing, whistling, kerb crawling is a crime and they want to support and hear from victims.

Would it be a good idea for people on twitter to forward this thread to police and crime commissioners in their area, do you think? Or is there a lead police force on violence against women and girls?

I agree View we need to do something and ask why this is still happening.

I’m on Twitter but not tech savvy- how do I forward the thread?

Perhaps start with an AIBU thread, for traffic and to involve other MNs?

Or tweet Jeremy Vine (Radio 2) or Julia Brewer-Hartley (Talk Radio) or the producer of Loose Women?

Or tweet charities like Childline and the NSPCC.

I'm sure that there is more that can be done to break through the silence on the paedophiles, hiding in plain sight, harassing and frightening our children.

I've just thought of something else.

A sting.

Allow your daughter to walk the dog, along the usual routes. Follow behind her, armed with a camera or a phone. Photograph any interactions with kerb crawlers or anyone who tries to get her attention with whistles or comments.

If you decide to contact talkshow hosts or child protection charities, the evidence will be invaluable.

I had similar when I was her age and right the way through my teens. Dirty old men staring, yelled at by builders and passing cars, repeatedly groped and stared at by a particularly notorious school bus driver in his 50's, once he even chased me and tried to pick me up, and most of his colleagues were also lecherous creeps.