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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

WtF can i do about this? Lecherous men harrasing my daighter, to the extent that she doesnt want to go out on her own!

152 replies

Moanslice · 20/08/2018 14:28

Any advice massively welcom. My dd has just turned 13. She is 6ft tall and looks 16/17. When she goes out she get cat called, propositioned, chatted up... maybe 8 times out of 10. So, she has stopped leaving the house

I persuaded her to take the dog out today. Within 10 minutes she had a man kerb crawling her from behind. She said was he saw her face he must have realised how young she is and drove off

She cant NOT ever leave the house on her own, but this is awful. She isnt the kind of girl that would tell them to fuck off. Or say anything

Royally pissed off

OP posts:
Pythagonal · 21/08/2018 02:20

Eh? The girl's living on planet Earth where misogyny's been a fact of life for millennia. She needs help to cope with it

Victim blaming, much? Men need to sort this shit out, not women.

We see you

moredoll · 21/08/2018 02:28

Dear God. Victim blaming.

Pythagonal · 21/08/2018 02:35

???

midgesforever · 21/08/2018 03:21

I am in my 40's, I went to female self defence classes. It is depressing that that they are still needed. My DH has never threatened teenage girls, he also has never felt the need to go to a self defence class. All men are not the problem but only men are the problem.

thebewilderness · 21/08/2018 03:24

When I was young I was an unarmed defensive tactics instructor.
The difference it makes for women and girls is significant.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 21/08/2018 03:46

How depressingly familiar.

As a young girl I found a really confident posture and length of stride helped. I was sending out don't mess with me vibes. Also a good, dead stare, the kind teachers use to subdue year 9s. If your daughter can't say fuck off, she can emanate it.

Mind you, learning a pre-emotive and loud, "fuck off" made my twenties more bearable than my teenage years.

But it shouldn't be necessary, it just shouldn't be necessary.

KickAssAngel · 21/08/2018 03:55

This group deals specifically with street harassment. It may help her to read how other people feel, or to write about it for herself. She doesn't have to get involved at all, but reading the website may help her.

There's also a 'bystander intervention' section that can help those of us who want to support anyone in public if we see something going on.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 21/08/2018 08:54

Reading all the posts a thing that jumps out at me is that lots are advice around how to make girls more confident - without being explicit why.

My initial thought when I read that sort of advice is to make them more confident so they can give back which is good if they can but I still think is a stretch for many girls and can be dangerous.

But it's just occured to me that maybe it's in order to counteract the absolute loss of confidence that being treated like this means for so many girls.

Like earlier - it's been seen that at this age, OPs DD age, suddenly girls confidence levels which have been the same as boys go off a cliff. Girls continue to rise. This sudden horrifying realisation that you are to many people just a sex object, a prop, and more than that, possible prey, is really really had to get to grips with. Of course it makes us feel like shit.

On the baggy clothes - saw that didn't go down too well! I know that clothes are not the reason men act like this obv. I just thought if she's 6ft that is really tall for a girl and with a hood and if they can't see her body shape they might think she's a bloke and leave her alone? Not an option for me I'm 5.3! Have seen that others have tried and it doesn't help. So - sorry for useless advice.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 21/08/2018 08:56

Sorry DD is 13 not 11!

My DD is 11 and has boobs etc so I am worriying for her. She doesn't really go out on her own yet but is starting secondary school in sept and will be, so all this is pertinent.

I need to do some role playing with them prob. She's very shy and diffident and "dont' make a fuss" and so on though so arrgh.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 21/08/2018 08:59

suddenly girls confidence levels which have been the same as boys go off a cliff. Girls continue to rise

boys confidence continues to rise obv!

This is gender. When children hit puberty and their place in the world is revealed. What happens to their confidence signals it loud and clear.

Of course the people who did they study looked for other reasons and avoided the one glaring them in the face.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 21/08/2018 09:00

How do I go about finding a women's self defence class?

When I google it's all lots of men with white gear on - full on martial arts courses.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 21/08/2018 09:03

Also an issue with this is that I'm disabled and so can't do most of it - but that's another story!

Looking after yourself is great but it's not a societal solution as they just choose a different victim.

The kids are not disabled so they can do whatever. Just - it's always been very interesting for me - "run away!" nope can't do that. So, I just went out and did my thing because if something was going to happen there wasn't a lot I could do about it! In fact it was pretty much always fine - the times it wasn't were not the times when the "keep safe" lists would have helped - it was on the high street at lunchtime, at a male friends house, on the tube to work etc. Those "keep safe" lists piss me off TBH.

LonnyVonnyWilsonFrickett · 21/08/2018 10:03

Yeah NothingOnTellyAgain my comments about confidence-building things were more about providing a counter-balance. Of course this kind of shit destroys young women's confidence - you have to top it back up with other things.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 21/08/2018 10:17

I have 2 DD who will be coming into this soon (one now-ish!) and so it's a good time to be thinking about it all.

We did try the martial arts thing as a family but I didn't feel at all comfortable. The whole "discipline" thing - it all felt very boy / man centred even though on the surface it was for everyone there was that feeling I've had so many times where underneath you're not really genuinely who they're interested in, it's not really "for you" - you know that feeling I'm sure.

I wish they did old school women's stuff but round here it's just gone. Seems the male martial arts types came in and corndered the market, pushed the women out :(

NothingOnTellyAgain · 21/08/2018 10:18

DD2 is going to start Judo in sept which I suspect she will be very good at Grin she is a strong little bugger and build like her dad ie solid and muscular lol

DD1 different kettle of fish.

Aristaeus76 · 21/08/2018 11:58

While what your daughter is experiencing is horrible, the people suggesting that she shouts paedo at men who are not paedophiles need to stop.

IfIWasABirdIdFlyIn2ACeilingFan · 21/08/2018 12:02

Hmm if they’re sexually harassing a child then yeah, paedo sounds just about spot on.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 21/08/2018 12:02

Why?

Does it matter if a child uses the wrong words when trying to get rid of a much older man who is trying to get in her knickers?

NothingOnTellyAgain · 21/08/2018 12:04

POster thinks she should be shouting "hebephile!" at them which won't have quite the same effect!

I would recommend shouting fuck off. These men don't care how old she is - they just see tits and shout and follow etc.

Jaxhog · 21/08/2018 12:14

Safest thing is to shout 'piss off old man'. Telling them you're only 13 could backfire. But an attack alarm might make her feel safer.

So sad to think some men are still doing this. I thought the world had moved on from when I was a teenager.

JasmineByTheSea · 21/08/2018 12:14

I feel for her. I was harrassed from a young age and coped by ignoring it, head high looking straight ahead and not engaging. Sometimes I would get angry and shout but some men found that hilarious and loved a reaction. I was very angry and distrustful towards men for years. It also makes me cross when I hear some somen say they love getting whistled at, because it dismisses the experience of so many women and girls who are harrassed regularly by strangers.

It’s utterly wrong. I don’t know what advice to give but not going out is obviously not going to help. She’ll have to find a way to ignore them. Poor thing.

As a society we should all be more vocal by calling out this type of behaviour. At least building sites are better these days- they used to be terrible when I was a teenager.

Jaxhog · 21/08/2018 12:17

The martial arts thing is worth considering if you can find a female teacher. (I used to teach Karate and women's self defense.)

JasmineByTheSea · 21/08/2018 12:23

Re baggy clothes- When I was younger I was still harrassed when dressed ‘modestly’. I don’t think that’s the answer.

Ooforfoxsakeridesagain · 21/08/2018 12:41

This makes me burn with fury.

The men just need to stop sexually harassing children. The need to stop. Full stop.

It is their problem, and only theirs. ‘Not all men’. No, but it’s overwhelmingly men, and those that don’t need to stand up and make sure those other men know they JUST DONT DO IT.

Baggy clothes/hiding away/confrontation - our daughters should have to deal with any of this shit.

I have had to explain to my 13 year old that I am not going to tell her what she can and can’t wear but she does need to understand that there are men who will think they are entitled to make lewd comments/humiliate/embarrass her for their own sport. It is their problem and a police matter.

This shit starts before puberty. I was 11 and in my junior school uniform when I was corned walking home by an old bloke. I was terrified. Neither my parents or teachers didn’t know how to handle it. So they ignored it. We were instructed to ‘point and laugh’ when we were (inevitably) flashed at.

I am fucking furious.

I promise that if I witness this I will not hesitate to stand inbetween any child and the person harassing them and ensure everyone in earshot knows what they have done, before calling the police.

So. Fucking. Over. It.

Aristaeus76 · 21/08/2018 13:08

@nothingontellyagain. Why? Because publicly accusing someone of being a paedo when they're not can have disastrous consequences. Some people are more than happy to gather up a lynch mob at the mere mention of the word.