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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

MN is a 'Hate group' apparently.

278 replies

KlutzyDraconequus · 19/08/2018 10:25

Apologies for spoiling your Sunday, but i thought I'd best let you all know, according to some on an external site... Everyone here is part of a hate group..
I had no idea tbh.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
boatyardblues · 01/09/2018 20:26

Is that a satire account? It surely can’t be real

arranfan · 01/09/2018 20:31

Is that a satire account? It surely can’t be real

According to Dr Stock's tweet timeline, iirc, no, it's not a parody. The account holder was an invited speaker at Vancouver Women's March.

I would be utterly delighted to be wrong and have misinterpreted matters.

Wanderabout · 01/09/2018 20:32

Vancouver has truly jumped the shark.

AncientLights · 01/09/2018 20:42

The bit about the 60th birthday, Sussex police and comments about Man Friday's Amy put me in mind of someone. I spy with my little eye someone beginning with HW?

Ereshkigal · 01/09/2018 20:45

It isn't a satire account. Hailey was asked to speak at Vancouver Women's March.

Ereshkigal · 01/09/2018 20:46

I promise you this person is real. A narcissistic fetishist, yes. But a real one.

Ereshkigal · 01/09/2018 20:47

Friends with Morgane Oger and teaming up to attack Feminist Current and Vancouver Rape Relief.

woman11017 · 01/09/2018 21:29

The proscribing transition from legitimate organisation, to protestors, to 'hate group' and then worse, is usually pretty seamless in authoritarian regimes.

arranfan · 01/09/2018 21:48

The proscribing transition from legitimate organisation, to protestors, to 'hate group' and then worse, is usually pretty seamless in authoritarian regimes.

It seems like only yesterday that someone did, in fact, liken hate crimes, such as those perpetrated allegedly on a popular parenting site, to domestic terrorism. It seems wholly implausible as I type it, but wasn't it something to do with the stickers?

arranfan · 01/09/2018 22:10

Found it - it was buried in the first sticker thread.

Women who know the difference between male and female are domestic terrorists

twitter.com/AliciaKeyes10/status/1030500643734257664

Sadly, I think the sub-tweet that is the origin of the terrorism claim is now missing.

Ereshkigal · 01/09/2018 22:19

No still there:

twitter.com/ImpaledOnAPyre/status/1030089787632439296?s=20

woman11017 · 01/09/2018 22:23

Thanks, interesting tweet, that. arranfan It's an old trick of the regimes adored by the perpetrators of this malarkey. We see it clearly, fortunately, and are doing exactly the right organising which managed to defeat at least some of those regimes.

arranfan · 01/09/2018 22:36

Thanks, Erishkegal It's so odd, in my mind's eye, I can see something involving the Usual Suspects and one of them was egging on Mayor Anderson and the Merseyside Police to investigate #stickerwoman as a hate crime/domestic terrorism but, for the life of me, I can't locate it.

However, from the Alicia Keyes thread, something I didn't see previously and a nice blast from the past about the quirky -> threat to the national status of Greenham and the "Ladies Knitting and Terrorism Circle" :) : twitter.com/ragingdyke63/status/1030788364600070144

woman11017 · 01/09/2018 22:43

Sorry Erishkegal thanks Smile Greenham Common, excellent work there, from the women, and men who provided ancillary back up for unpaid domestic work and child care. Different times.......

Ereshkigal · 01/09/2018 22:44

I think I remember that too, arran.

DancelikeEmmaGoldman · 02/09/2018 05:58

Said no woman, ever. I think my radicalisation process went nuclear - like The Hulk, but the feminist version.

MN is a 'Hate group' apparently.
ItsalmostSummer · 02/09/2018 06:01

Yes @ToetoToe protecting women is not hate”. Agreed.

ItsalmostSummer · 02/09/2018 06:04

“Protecting women is not hate” (forgot both the quotes).

ShotsFired · 02/09/2018 06:29

Good lord. Imagine having the time and imagination to come up with all that in a vain effort to try and make people believe you.

I kind of pity them for their desperation in the face of no actual facts to use.

Also side question:
What is the ruling on pants/no pants underneath the sturdy pyjamas? That does seem a topic of great concern around MN.

ocelot41 · 02/09/2018 06:54

MN is the only place I feel able to voice what is quite a complex position - where I don't feel pushed to one extreme or another. I had a long term relationship with someone who had gender dysphoria - they were not a dangerous fetishist, they were (are) a lovely, kind, vulnerable human being who I loved very much.

They did become very self-absorbed as they transitioned and needed to not be part of a couple as they went through that (and I needed a partner who cared how my day had been too!) But are still friends.

So I think that dysphoria is definitely A Thing, and even A Thing I would not wish on my worst enemy. I fully support their wish to live 'as if' they were a woman, because it helps them feel better and they were suicidal. But they (preferred pronoun) know that they are not a woman, never will be, and would never wish to erode women's rights. They live pretty quietly, to be honest, because it is a source of constant pain to feel so 'wrong' in oneself, but there you have it.

From my reading of peer reviewed papers on the subject (am academic) there does seem to be something different about the body imaging bit of the brain in people with dysphoria. But there is no such thing as a 'lady brain' or inherently feminine, gendered characteristics. Gender dysphoria doesnt therefore seem to be about gender at all, but rather a sense that the sex of one's body is misaligned to one's deep perceptions of what it should be.

At the same time, I am a long term supporter of the LGB movement (as it was when I joined). I campaigned twenty years ago for those undergoing hormonal and surgical intervention to have the right to private bathroom facilities, and to be protected at work from bullying or discrimination. At the same time, LGB campaigners knew that opening our doors to those with genuine dysphoria would also open the doors to fetishists who just liked to dress as women, have everyone call them she, and then jack off furiously in the back row (the Wanky Wendys as we used to call them).

So as far as I can see there are, and has always been, very different reasons why a biological man may dress as a woman, and we need to talk about those. I hate the idea that a Wanky Wendy would be allowed into a communal changing room or (worse) a women's refuge, whereas people like my friend have genuine needs and would prefer to quietly use 'third spaces', but these are often not available.

It all seems a dreadful muddle and there are few spaces left where it is ok to talk in more nuanced terms. I have given up going to LGBT meetings now as anytime I voice support for dysphoric people without stating that 'transwomen are women' I get called transphobic. Which given that I was out campaigning against trans hate 20 fricking years ago is just.... Confused So I can't say I have reached 'peak trans' as I still wish to protect dysphoric people, but some of those transactivists are really Orwellian...

ocelot41 · 02/09/2018 06:55

Sorry that was a really epic post wasn't it? Blush

LadybirdsAreBirds · 02/09/2018 07:24

Shots

Knickers. We are not heathens

LadybirdsAreBirds · 02/09/2018 07:26

ocelot

If you can't write epic (important) posts on here, where can you? Twatter doesn't give people the latitude for nuance

LadybirdsAreBirds · 02/09/2018 07:29

ocelot

I wonder what the link is between gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia, and other psychiatric conditions such as anorexia

arranfan · 02/09/2018 07:34

Knickers. We are not heathens

^ Well, Quite^.

We may be a (spectacularly) disorganised and unfocused Hate Group who can scarcely muster more than strong disapproval on most topics but on this I feel we are united.