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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sexual exploitation of young girls in Huddersfield - again?

163 replies

Bowlofbabelfish · 15/08/2018 10:24

Just seen this story. Is this one of the three linked trials that are ongoing or is it an entirely new investigation that’s now coming to court?

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6062349/Thirty-men-woman-charged-sexual-exploitation-girls-young-12.html

I suspect we will see the usual rhetoric about working class girls being worth nothing in the eyes of the law.

OP posts:
leapingtorand · 15/08/2018 19:14

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IfNotNowThenWhen1 · 15/08/2018 19:16

The ones getting away with it may be Pakistani, I don't know, but growing up it was also white men and black men. I doubt that has changed.

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 15/08/2018 19:20

leaping it may well be such men who are more likely to operate in this way, but sexual abuse of children and vulnerable people is going on in every culture and socio-economic group that exists. This MO is just one of many different ones that operate.

It is dangerous IMO to assume that other groups/cultures are safer. They are not. The overwhelming number of sexual abuse victims I have worked with have been abused by a member of their own family/ close social circle/culture.

womanspeaking · 15/08/2018 19:26

It was Ann Cryer - the Labour MP who first raised this. She was shunned by many including shamefully by many colleagues in the Labour Party.

No change with their attitude to women and safeguarding there as we still see.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/30/rotherham-girls-could-have-been-spared-ann-cryer

TheQueef · 15/08/2018 20:46

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TheQueef · 15/08/2018 20:51

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Champion
Sarah Champion, Rotherham MP.
Had to resign over it.

Ereshkigal · 15/08/2018 21:00

It was female social workers like my friend who brought many of these cases to light, at considerable personal expense.

YY. And concern for these girls is by no means universal among social workers either, in my own experience. Agree with Lang that multi agency working is a problem and often it simply allows all groups to avoid overall responsibility.

FermatsTheorem · 15/08/2018 21:09

It's a question of the underlying demographics, I suspect.

Outside of my reasonably diverse university town, the rest of my county is predominantly rural and dirt poor (some of the lowest average wages in England) and overwhelmingly white. According to friends who work in child protection in the police and social services, we have a huge trafficking problem - teen girls being moved, often not very far, maybe just a neighbouring town 20 miles away, and trapped into prostitution. Here it's a white-on-white crime because that's the demographic of the area.

Let's not forget the work of American psychologist David Lisak who studies undetected campus rapists - on US campuses, 1 in 20 men will admit to behaviours which meet the legal definition of rape (ignoring "no", using body weight to hold down an unwilling woman, etc.) 30 isn't a small number for an average sized town (I think Huddersfield's population is about 150,000) - there will be far, far more rapists than that. If Lisak's figures can be generalised to the UK and a different demographic, there could be over 3000 men in that one town who've at some stage used greater physical strength to over-ride a woman's "no".

This is in no way to downplay the role played by a toxic mix of a bastardised version of Islam, and the refusal of white liberals to confront this bastardised version of Islam for fear of being seen as racist in what's going on in Yorkshire specifically. But as a general point, it's important to remember that what matters here is power structures - and the power structures may be rich white men in the BBC (Savile and his mates), white men in religious orders (the Catholic and Anglican churches), white men in sports (the team doctor for the US gymnastics team, the coaching scandal in the UK where the victims were predominantly boys), or, as in Rotherham and Huddersfield, a close community of Muslim men who, though not exactly rolling in it, were very much better off and in a stable community position compared to their victims. The common factor is men in positions of power able to form closed groups not subject to scrutiny. Any "boys club" seems to do the trick in opening the way to abuse and rape scandals.

The propensity to rape comes first, the after-the-fact justification comes second (my religion tells me these girls are "loose women, asking for it", "they're only poor trashy girls who are up for it anyway", "they're just junkies after a fix"), and is incidental to the crime.

LangCleg · 15/08/2018 21:11

This is in no way to downplay the role played by a toxic mix of a bastardised version of Islam, and the refusal of white liberals to confront this bastardised version of Islam for fear of being seen as racist in what's going on in Yorkshire specifically. But as a general point, it's important to remember that what matters here is power structures - and the power structures may be rich white men in the BBC (Savile and his mates), white men in religious orders (the Catholic and Anglican churches), white men in sports (the team doctor for the US gymnastics team, the coaching scandal in the UK where the victims were predominantly boys), or, as in Rotherham and Huddersfield, a close community of Muslim men who, though not exactly rolling in it, were very much better off and in a stable community position compared to their victims. The common factor is men in positions of power able to form closed groups not subject to scrutiny. Any "boys club" seems to do the trick in opening the way to abuse and rape scandals.

This. Exactly.

madja · 15/08/2018 21:19

The common factor is men in positions of power able to form closed groups not subject to scrutiny

Absolutely this^

FormerlyPickingOakum · 15/08/2018 21:28

One angle that is never explored with this issue is that these perpetrators are usually never British-born.

I know quite a few second-generation Muslims from Pakistani families in Kirklees and they are horrified at these grooming cases. Being British born and going to school in Kirklees means there's not the same sense of "otherness" to working class white communities. After all, you might have gone to school with someone's brother or dad.

What you tend to find is these groomers are chain-migration husbands: a relative born in Pakistan who is married to a family member for visa purposes and who exists in a kind of cultural twilight zone of late night taxi and take away work with other chain migration husbands from Pakistan, hearing a very skewed perspective of British culture.

flashz · 15/08/2018 21:35

How the fuck can you blame Islam when sex outside marriage is forbidden? Likewise for drugs and alcohol. How can you call these ppl Muslims when they are breaching the major rules of Islam? Daily mail and EDL would have you blame Muslims when it's far more complicated than that. Are ppl Flipping gullible or what.
These girls are victims but all ppl seem to care about is the so called religion of the perpetrators (ha! When extra-marital sex and alcohol mean they've renounced their faith anyway).
Tommy Robinson or the papers dont care when there's a grooming case involving white perpetrators. I wonder why....
Our patriarchal and sexist society has turned many Men into trash. Doesn't matter if they are white, Pakistani or whatever.

therealposieparker · 15/08/2018 21:38

If this was at a fraternity of athletes we'd be asking what's the cause within this culture than produces the majority of this type of predator.

If this was rich Etonians we'd scorn the privilege that created paedophilic rapists.

As it is most people are being crushed by the big fat elephants in the room...

87% of men in grooming gangs are from one culture. That is not a bastardised version of Islam just like Priests that abused kids are still catholics.

This is the same shit that silences women around trans issues. Let's have some balls people.

Ereshkigal · 15/08/2018 21:40

What you tend to find is these groomers are chain-migration husbands: a relative born in Pakistan who is married to a family member for visa purposes and who exists in a kind of cultural twilight zone of late night taxi and take away work with other chain migration husbands from Pakistan, hearing a very skewed perspective of British culture.

Quite possibly here because of a scenario like this:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/forced-marriage-visas-for-men-who-force-teenagers-into-marriage-f82wkldp3

Ereshkigal · 15/08/2018 21:41

Which I post because generally violent misogynists don't change their spots and they abuse women closer to home as well.

therealposieparker · 15/08/2018 21:42

I can't believe how little coverage this vile woman got in the press

Vicky1990 · 15/08/2018 21:43

Why is no one mentioning these men are mostly immigrants.

Bespin · 15/08/2018 21:43

unfortunately none of this as gone away with a few trials and this is very much still an ongoing issue with gangs in this area and other surrounding areas

Ereshkigal · 15/08/2018 21:44

The common factor is men in positions of power able to form closed groups not subject to scrutiny

YY.

therealposieparker · 15/08/2018 21:45

Don't mention that they're Muslim or immigrants. #bigots

Bespin · 15/08/2018 21:47

also this is not only immigrants or other ethnic minority groups, there are many different groups of men that pray on vunrability young woman. especially with mental health and learning disabilities.

therealposieparker · 15/08/2018 21:50

87% of all men known in these gangs are Pakistani Muslim. Ask the women in Pakistan if they are surprised. Seriously. What is wrong with saying this?

Bespin · 15/08/2018 21:55

therealposieparker

because that is not the whole picture of this type of crime and that is not the only profile of the men thst carry this out. to simply state that its this group minimises this problem which is a wider issues around the exploration and vunrable young woman.

therealposieparker · 15/08/2018 21:57

So we should focus on the victims not the perpetrators in these specific crimes? But in all others not victim blame?

Bespin · 15/08/2018 22:03

therealposieparker

I'm not in the mood for games around this I have spend the day dealing with the impact of this very thing I would suggest that we support the victims of these crimes to be in a position where they are supported to be able to bring the accused to justice. this is a missivly. complex issue and simply stating its one group misrepresents it. this is a nation wide issue with gangs of men from diffent ethnic backgrounds who use there positions of power.