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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ladies bathrooms and trans acceptance

155 replies

RosettaStoned · 14/08/2018 21:12

After reading many trans threads on here and other articles online I have come to realise I may have some internal conflict.

I'm generally a very open-minded live and let sort of person, always have been and I can't stand the thought of a person, be it man, woman or whatever, being unable to have their human rights acknowledged and dignified.

However I am opposed to self-identification as I feel it is prone to all sorts of abuse. That's just how I feel and various evidence backs up my concerns.

Anyway, I was reading an article (published 2 years ago) written by a woman about ladies public toilets and the fact that even when they were invented, women of the Victorian era were simply too embarrassed to use them in public.

Tying the point in to trans-issues, the author of the article goes on to say:

So where does that leave the transgender woman who would much rather endure the dirty looks of the ladies' room than the potential fists of the men's room? In a brutally unfair position, unfortunately. They are pioneers, and pioneers have never had an easy time of it. They live in a society that hasn't yet grown to accommodate them, just as ladies' bathrooms once didn't exist because society wasn't ready for women to pee in public. It sounds ridiculous, but that's how it is.

I must state that I don't wish to see a male in a female space unless there is a legitimate reason. But the author's comment about "transgendered people (sic) live in a society that hasn't yet grown to accommodate them" got me questioning my own belief system.

Will my children or my grandchildren (or anyone for that matter) one day look at me as someone with bigoted, old-fashioned views because self-ID will have a more common place in society as time goes on?

I'm perhaps not making myself very clear and before anyone jumps on me, no I am not calling anyone who opposes self-ID bigoted or old-fashioned. I am trying to get across that society changes all the time. In ten years time, self-ID may well and truly be as normal and everyday as wearing socks or drinking a brew. And society will adapt to it whether we want to or not.

What I'm asking is, what if the author makes a valid point? What if one day we do look back and see we were once 'out of touch' with the modern world? I dunno.... has anyone else questioned this?

OP posts:
RosettaStoned · 16/08/2018 14:44

When Target, the US store, introduced self ID the voyeuristic/sex harassment crime rate against women more than doubled. In the first three months.

Sorry to be a pedant @Knicknackpaddyflak but have you got any stats on this? I had a quick google search and nothing came up regarding target stores and self ID. Also I'd hazard a guess that many other US businesses have employed this change in legislation.
Still horrifying though

OP posts:
ALittleBitofVitriol · 16/08/2018 14:58

Here's the link for the Target info.
womanmeanssomething.com/targetstudy/

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 16/08/2018 15:07

Rosetta there was a thread about the surge in voyeurism in Target stores here back in February.

The initial link to the study still works. I checked.

RosettaStoned · 16/08/2018 15:45

Thank you so much for the links, going to have a read when I finish work.

OP posts:
thebewilderness · 16/08/2018 18:53

For example, it may be hard for a trans women without a GRC to bring an equal pay claim. Her employer discriminates against her as they perceive her to be legally female. However, she is legally male - so no discrimination etc.

I know the thread has moved on but I wanted to point out that this appears to be an effort to appropriate the Black woman's Catch-22 experience with employer discrimination that prompted Crenshaw to write “Demarginalizing the Intersection of Race and Sex".
Companies were judged not guilty discriminating against black women on the basis of race because they did not discriminate against Black male employees, and they were not guilty of discriminating against Black women on the basis of sex because they were not discriminating against white female employees.

It obviously does not apply in the scenario as quoted, but it is also obvious why they would try to appropriate the experience of Black women.
Understanding Intersectionality is essential to being able to refute these specious arguments MRAs make claiming white male oppression.

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