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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

As I was saying about the police.....

353 replies

Winniesalot · 07/08/2018 10:14

Wtf is "misgendering"?! Genuinely have no clue what this might be and whatever it is was totally and utterly non-intentional.

To those who doubted - this is 100% genuine.

To those who thought I was being rude that night - I'd like to make the point that nothing I said was directed at the person. I was making genetic statements for the purpose of conversation, not carrying out a personal attack on one person.

If this stays up then I will post a screenshot of the text I received from the PO.

OP posts:
RatRolyPoly · 07/08/2018 12:00

Harassment is ongoing Rat.... not a one off comment.

Thankfully I reckon the police probably know it too.

Datun · 07/08/2018 12:02

And hey, I wasn't there, I'm not the police; I don't know if this was harassment or not.

No, you don't. Given what the OP has said, which is the only information we have, it wasn't. It was a discussion about the concept of what constitutes a woman. They were in the OPs house, for heaven sake.

The transwoman in question then went on to report lots of other people.

It's perfectly reasonable to assume that the harassment is the other way round.

It's also, quite clearly, becoming an MO with certain litigious trans people.

The general public will not swallow this in a million years.

RatRolyPoly · 07/08/2018 12:02

Women are no longer allowed to state what they believe a woman is because a biological male might consider it a crime and if they do they have every right to call the police on them.

Misconstrue me all you like, I'm saying when you raise you voice and deliver something to someone knowing that they will find it hurtful and offensive I don't care one bloody jot how true it is. And if you do it over and over again, neither does the law, and you will have committed a crime.

You can't go around harassing people because you don't agree with them.

WhollyFather · 07/08/2018 12:04

Sorry for appearing under this topic but ....

OP, you need to be careful giving on the record answers to off the cuff questions. Would it be possible to ask the police for a list of their questions first? Could you record the interview somehow? If you can't get a solicitor can you at least have a witness friend present?

You may also want to ask for exact details of what alleged crime is being investigated, but I suspect it will be under Section 4A of the Public Order Act 1986 as amended by the The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994: '(1) A person is guilty of an offence if, with intent to cause a person harassment, alarm or distress, (s)he (a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or.....'.

I'd guess intent will be hard to prove but the law takes the complainant's word for it that they suffered alarm or distress etc.

IANAL.

RatRolyPoly · 07/08/2018 12:05

No, you don't. Given what the OP has said, which is the only information we have, it wasn't. It was a discussion about the concept of what constitutes a woman. They were in the OPs house, for heaven sake.

They weren't in the OP's house, they were in her friend's house as per the previous thread.

They were not having a discussion in the previous thread, it was a "heated disagreement" which the OP instigated. With a trans woman. About her not being a woman.

I don't think it was criminal harassment either, but I think it was bloody stupid and certainly has the potential to have been criminal. Especially as in the original thread the OP went on to bemoan how the trans woman in question was now all upset because her comment had been picked up on by the local community and now loads of people were saying it to her. So much so that the local pub was now being investigated. I mean come oooonnnn, if that isn't someone being fucking harassed. And the OP's like, "hey, I was just telling the truth, so are all these other people! Stupid trans person, getting all uppity about it".

Datun · 07/08/2018 12:05

People on here say a man can't be a woman all the time. It's not a crime.

There is nothing in the law to say you cannot say it. Misgendering, as part of equality law is completely different to stating that men cannot be women.

They were discussing the actual concept of transgenderisam. She wasn't walking up to some stranger in the street.

LunaTrap · 07/08/2018 12:05

You can't go around harrassing people because you don't agree with them

Really? Because I see TRAs doing this ALL THE TIME. Targeting individual women for committing 'thought crimes'. Hounding them, threatening them, doxing them. They don't even get suspended from twitter let alone questioned by the police.

therealposieparker · 07/08/2018 12:06

I fear the OP will be entrapped into committing hate speech and have no choice but to receive a caution.

RatRolyPoly · 07/08/2018 12:06

The general public will not swallow this in a million years.

Then the general public are severely emotionally stunted. Personally I think more of them.

Bespin · 07/08/2018 12:06

I agree posie you don't need to explain yourself to the police. again context is key to this also in your case posie I don't think you committed an offence I think your were offensive but that's just my view and I'm sure you don't feel that. The police though don't know all the facts though and we're trying to get them it really did seem a waste of time and money to send people to see you and I can imagine the distress it caused I hope they handle such things better in future. I think hate crime is such a hard thing to show and feel the law was designed to stop real life harassment in the streets and as been turn into this for on line and it does not work well.

HollyGibney · 07/08/2018 12:07

Serious, very simple question. If a trans person asks me if I see them as a man or a woman respectively and I say "no, I am sorry but I don't". Is that harassment and/or transphobic and/or hate crime?

Datun · 07/08/2018 12:07

Especially as in the original thread the OP went on to bemoan how the trans woman in question was now all upset because her comment had been picked up on by the local community and now loads of people were saying it to her.

Unless the OP has informed all the local people, how on earth is that her fault? Victim blaming.

HollyGibney · 07/08/2018 12:07

and/or offensive.

namechangedasimaguider · 07/08/2018 12:07

Just because you are offended by something doesn't mean a law has been broken.

The TW might have found the remarks offensive, I frequently find the remarks shouted by "white van man" types offensive, but I don't call the police.
Can just imagine it "So Mrs Guider, he called you a fat cow, and called into question your parking abilities- because of your sex, don't waste our time"

Datun · 07/08/2018 12:08

Then the general public are severely emotionally stunted.

Lol. Good for you.

hipsterfun · 07/08/2018 12:08

Agree with posie that harassment is ongoing in nature.

Frankly, to call a one-off statement of uncomfortable truth ‘harassment’, is to render the word meaningless (words and meanings is a recurrent theme lately) and deny victims of actual harassment the language to describe their experience.

raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 07/08/2018 12:08

@therealposieparker have you seen this? Do you have any advice for Winniesalot?

RatRolyPoly · 07/08/2018 12:08

People on here say a man can't be a woman all the time. It's not a crime.

Nope, it's not a crime. But to harass someone by saying things you know they will find offensive and hurtful directly to them, over and over, belligerently, in an aggressive and raised tone, yeah. That might well be a crime.

They were discussing the actual concept of transgenderisam.

No they weren't, the OP was telling this transwoman that just because SHE carried a handbag and SHE wore nail varnish it didn't make HER a woman. That's very different to you and I debating what it is to be a woman on here.

seafret · 07/08/2018 12:08

I agree datun and calling the police is absurd unless you actually genuinely beieve someone has committed a crime against you (which clearly that person does), which is why I said

But sometimes we will actually need to have this converstion in real life with real trans people, however much that may hurt or offend. It can't be just an online or theoretical conversation when the impacts are in real life.

It is very difficult though and provoking or hurting someone carelessly or uneccessarily crosses the line in many cases, and yes what exactly would be gained in many cases. But then shutting up becasue of futility is taken as acquiescence or agreement or appeasement and that isn't always helpful in the long run either.

If it isn't a crime then people should be able to speak their truth within reasonable civil bounds without fear as when discussing religion.

True things said in heated conversations may be hurtful but still true and sometimes necessary or worth saying on balance. It is a part of life to have significant disagreements about important things.

raisinsarenottheonlyfruit · 07/08/2018 12:09

Oh, apologies Posie I see you're already here!

SisterNotCisTerf · 07/08/2018 12:09

OP I have no idea what your relationship to the complainant is but please bear in mind you may have been deliberately set up. Take posie’s advice.

LangCleg · 07/08/2018 12:10

the police tend to get a bit arsey when you do things like no comment to every question

99% of police interviews with legal representation are no comment interviews with, at most, a prepared statement read by the solicitor.

Datun · 07/08/2018 12:11

Nope, it's not a crime. But to harass someone by saying things you know they will find offensive and hurtful directly to them, over and over, belligerently, in an aggressive and raised tone, yeah. That might well be a crime.

Good Lord, where has that come from?

SalemBlackCat · 07/08/2018 12:12

@RatRolyPoly You do realise that just because someone uses 'you' in a sentence, it doesn't mean that person is actually referring to the other person, right? It is like saying "how do you spell ........." (insert whatever word)? The questioner isn't asking a person how THEY specifically spell it, they are asking how it is spelled - full stop. Just because they said 'you' in the rhetorical manner does NOT mean she was referring to the person themselves. You are clutching at straws with the rhetorical 'you'.

LangCleg · 07/08/2018 12:13

Regardless of where one stands on trans issues, the best advice to this OP is Posie's: get a solicitor and do not speak to the police without representation.

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