People apparently support trans

[Janni01]

Don't know if these has been discussed, but was watching a soy documentary on the fight between trans and feminists and it actually said 72% of females support transwomen using female facilities and services and 65% of men support transmen using male services and facilities.

Anyone have any clue why so many seem to support this?

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas

no I also don't want this to happen as I know it will be bad for the trans community. I don't want men to abuse self id either why don't we work out how to stop them doing that together

Lady Geraldine raised her hand delicately to her mouth in a show of shock and horror at the blatant disobedience of the wicked harridan. Lady Geraldine herself was known for her compliant and feminine nature and had never seen such a horrifying display of female insubordination.

Keep them out of women's spaces...yup it is a start. What else are you suggesting?

Go on then, Bespin, I've had a reasonable day since this morning, so I shan't bite your head off, what do you envisage happening if we work together to keep men out of women's spaces and stop them gobbling up women's places on short lists and sports podiums and so on? How shall we achieve these aims?

Since Bespin's efforts are clearly wasted on the evil witches here perhaps actually trying to persuade Bespin's own community to be a teensy bit more reasonable might be a plan Bespin could pursue?

I know it's less fun than telling women off but you never know, it might just work!

Rufustheyawningreindeer

I'm just ready to move this forward, there are a few people thst always give the same response like the one just posted oh no the women are not listening to you. what's the point in that someone does not share the same view as you so what. you don't have to listen to anyone. we need a workable solution to this government dies not consult all the time it took nearly 10 years to get this one and that was us pushing for that. they would like solutions to this not unworkable answers

I don't recall asking you to be delicate. Selective listening, this.

My point is, let's actually talk feminism here. With men like 45 and Nigel Farage and with abortion rights being debated once more in the US, what is the value of focusing so arduously on confining trans folk to second-class status rather than actually go after more weighty matters.

AngryAttackKittens I have done that for over 10 years. I saw this coming a long time ago and hoped we could avoid it.

*My point is, let's actually talk feminism here#8

Lol.

Didn't do much good, then.

I prefer to discuss feminism with feminists and have absolutely no interest in discussing it with individuals with odd and rather archaic ideas about female sexuality.

Hey lets not talk about all that nasty stuff, here's a lollipop.

FloralBunting

right this is about gatekeeping it always as been make the process smoother less impersonal. put the checks in like getting a passport but take out the medical bit as the waiting list is now too long to sustain that bit that or improve trans health care. if you are living in your choosen gender it is very easy to provide evidence of that.

if you are living in your choosen gender it is very easy to provide evidence of that

Do you get issued Incredibly Sturdy Pyjamas too? To protect you from the nasty men? Wow.

AngryAttackKittens

no unfortunately it did not as I'm not in a position of power or a celebrity I work full time and it is often the ones that get in the room who do this full time that make the policys like jess.

I am a feminist if you think I am or not like a lot of other feminist we are not all the same or hold the same view

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas

that just makes no sence lol

Oh did you miss the nugget that girls can now be safe from boys who might rape them, by wearing sturdy pyjamas when sharing tents. Apparently.

Bespin
where would we go I know you will say male wards so when one of us gets sexuality assaulted which happens then what. what is the practical solution to this.

Two questions:

1. 'one of us' - do you mean, transgender people under the Stonewall definition of transexuals, males with a sexual fetish for wearing female-stereotypical clothes, drag queens, non-binary, etc?

So all of the above get to bunk down with the females?

Or is it just a specific proportion of the umbrella who get to do so? Who decides?
And if you're portioning off just a small portion of transgender-identifying people who don't want to be housed on the 'male' wards ( as you've specified, as otherwise you'd also be talking about people wanting to get on male wards - though that sort of loses its meaning, once you start dismantling biological sex definitions, doesn't it? And there doesn't seem to be a swell of transmen demanding their rights to male spaces) surely you're veering into transphobic territory, excluding those who don't meet a specific criteria. Surely it's whoever says they're a woman?

2. when one of us gets sexuality assaulted which happens then what
   This statement was a bit jaw-dropping in its disingenuity. And looks like a common threat. 'Women - it will be your fault'

Posters have time and again posted evidence of male people entering female spaces under the cloak of 'transgender' and assaulting women. (To be clear, I am not linking these criminals with identified transwomen, but the door is opened to them through the lowering of boundaries).

Then what?

What's your practical solution?

Essentially you're saying females must drop their boundaries, increase their risk of being sexually assaulted, as a result of male's fear of other male's violence?

Bespin, you know what, I've no issue at all with a sensible improvement of the process. We all know the GRC is a bit of a fudge from the days before equal marriage, so I am fine with some judicious tinkering.

How do ensure the safeguarding remains in place? I'm really quite happy for trans people to present as they wish, and be safe from harm and prejudice. I want to dismantle gender construction.
How can we do that without all the negative consequences for women and kids?

IncrediblySturdyPyjamas

what idiot wrote that, I should hope girls are not sharing with boys, but I'm guessing you mean trans girls.

I am a feminist if you think I am or not like a lot of other feminist we are not all the same or hold the same view

Back in the day it really wasnt cool to say you were a feminist. It has had a bit of a revamp now that men think it is a good way to attract vulnerable women.

I'll say again what I said a couple of days ago - if a 'not-born' female says that they are a feminist - you need to look at what they are trying to get out of saying they are a feminist. It will be some sort of power. Always.

pombear

Or is it just a specific proportion of the umbrella who get to do so? Who decides?

that's the actual bloody question I can tell you it is not going to be none so what your answer to it that's what they want to know. where is the line how is it safeguarded

And any new laws have to be workable for trans feminine, trans masculine, non binary, gender fluid and agender people too (and those of us with no gender identity at all).

what idiot wrote that, I should hope girls are not sharing with boys, but I'm guessing you mean trans girls.

What is the difference, exactly?

Even assuming that women and girls are comfortable with a subset of males in their sex segregated spaces, how is it possible to allow the legitimate ones in while keeping every other male out?

Can we tell who has a right to be there by sight? Or do we just have to believe that men won't abuse the system?

I'm not convinced that there is a safe solution. Before women and girls lose their sex segregated spaces, I think the onus is on the people who want to dismantle the current system to prove that there is no danger to women and girls.

Bespin

So what's your answer? Where do you draw the line? What would make you comfortable and reduce your personal risk of being sexually assaulted?

Who's 'in' and who's 'out' of female-defined spaces?