People apparently support trans

[Janni01]

Don't know if these has been discussed, but was watching a soy documentary on the fight between trans and feminists and it actually said 72% of females support transwomen using female facilities and services and 65% of men support transmen using male services and facilities.

Anyone have any clue why so many seem to support this?

People on this board ....clearly believe that biological sex is the one true determinant of a person's gender identity. This is at odds with current science.

Seriously, come on. You've read enough of these threads to know that is a deliberate misstatement of feminist's position.

I'm not a regular (so please correct me if I don't use the right terms), but time and again posters repeat that they see gender as a set of restrictive, unhelpful stereotypes which need to be pulled down, not reinforced. They see biological sex as determinative of biological sex, and no more.

Not the "beware the lesbians!" nonsense again. I can't be arsed with explaining for the millionth time that yes, lesbians are women, and no, other women aren't scared of them.

Be more delicate and hesitant, ladies, and less strident!

We really aren’t as bothered about toilets as you think we are - we are more concerned about NHS wards (especially secure mental facilities), prisons, refuges, sporting events, locker rooms, communal showers and our rights to organise and self represent.

I just asked the DH if I am delicate and hesitant. He said, "No, mate, you're the proverbial fairy elephant," and ran off laughing. What fucking proverb has a fairy elephant in it? I might have to sulk. I am delicate and hesitant. I'm known for being delicate and hesitant. Ask anyone. (But not the DH. He's like Jon Snow, the bloody know nothing.)

It's like being stuck in a Harry Enfield sketch, but then you realise that the person saying the deliberately absurd things is actually 100% serious and really does believe that womanhood is the state of wafting around delicately and waving a hankie dramatically as you swoon onto a waiting divan/into a man's manly arms. Like a Barbara Cartland novel, but with side-eyeing women cast as the witches from Macbeth and made to lurk evilly in the background.

I wish Barbara C were still around to give us a 2018 update on this:

www.amazon.co.uk/Sex-teenager-Barbara-Cartland/dp/B0000CM1F4?tag=mumsnetforum-21

Well, I don't know about you, but I spend at least half my waking hours crying "Sal volatile! Sal volatile!" and holding out my hesitant and delicate hands for the smelling salts to be place in them by a passing white knight.

Pretty sure that Babs wouldn’t be impressed by the new concept of ‘ladydick’.

what even I find frustrating is you are mostly saying the same think in a lot of different ways trans woman are not biological women agreed there is a difference. why not then move on to how you are going to get what you want

Oh no.You are frustrated?

You could always choose to stop posting in Feminism and Women's Right, now that we have established that your angle is always going to come from that of a biological man. Just a thought.

(That might be more Georgette Heyer than Babs.)

I asked DH if he would prefer a more delicate and hesitant sexual partner earlier and he made a face like someone had just suggested he eat a turd.

In fact, natal women and transgender women have been sharing bathrooms forever as well.

No matter how many times you repeat this lie it remains a zombie lie that never dies. Women have been fleeing toilets to call the manager or police on transgenders, cross dressers, and men, who entered the ladies toilets for generations.

BettyDuMonde

brilliant right so what are you going to do with thenm let's take wards, there is no money for a third option so you can not say that no one will support it you can not outright ban us because where would we go I know you will say male wards so when one of us gets sexuality assaulted which happens then what. what is the practical solution to this. why not look at a position where we can make this work as the absolute option are not really on the table unless you can really change the course of society but while you are waiting for that to happen this consultation will have happened and you probably will not like the result chances like this don't happen often. it will be another 10 years if they look at this again

"Lady Geraldine smoothed down her skirts delicately in a ladylike attempt to conceal her hesitant erection."

I asked DH if he would prefer a more delicate and hesitant sexual partner earlier and he made a face like someone had just suggested he eat a turd.

Freakin' Ada. I'm now (hesitantly and delicately, obvs) bellowing into the next room to ask if "fairy elephant" has anything to do with sexy times. I may not report back, depending on the answer!

when one of us gets sexuality assaulted which happens then what.

Call the cops like what women are supposed to do. What has it got to do with women? We are not here to solve your problems.

Why do you expect women to solve male violence? What does the NHS do about male violence against males on the wards? Call the police like you keep telling women to do?

Crossposted ISP!

Cassie, it's a shame you feel unable to engage with the substance of the predominant argument here, and instead impugn the motives of the posters as 'anti-trans'.

You keep focusing on bathrooms, despite being told repeatedly that is not the crux of the issue. You have ignored my post about why biology is so significant when we talk about women's rights and protections.

We are telling you that sex and gender are separate, which you told us was your position on your first post on the thread. We do not believe that sex is the 'only determinant of someone's gender identity'. We believe gender identity is something some have, some don't, and strict application of it as a system is oppressive and unhelpful.

Weird isn't it - how many times we have said this to Bespin, and others...almost word for word.

so you are really just going to keep saying that until this consultation is over. its not our problem. and you believe people will listen to that. no one is going to just ban trans people from spaces and expect them to use the opersite ones look what happens in America when they try thst it's a disaster for them.

And when men assault women in mixed changing rooms? Nothing to see here, it is just a woman making a fuss.

I am amazed that you want this to be the thing you focus on when you could actually infulance this debate to put safeguards in place as you want. if you remain stuck to this absolute position I feel you will always be disappointed

Oh no, you are amazed the women are not listening and doing what you tell them. Whatever shall we do?

what even I find frustrating is you are mostly saying the same think in a lot of different ways trans woman are not biological women agreed there is a difference. why not then move on to how you are going to get what you want. you keep going over the same points and responding to tra who are obviously getting you to do that.

Working on the premise that you are using the 'royal' you in your post

I think most of us find the constant repetition frustrating

But i dont go round the threads telling people they are debating wrong...I accidentally tone policed once and my goodness i got told!