People apparently support trans

[Janni01]

Don't know if these has been discussed, but was watching a soy documentary on the fight between trans and feminists and it actually said 72% of females support transwomen using female facilities and services and 65% of men support transmen using male services and facilities.

Anyone have any clue why so many seem to support this?

Also, what do we do with all the other transgender people that identify under the stonewall banner? Which facilities do they use?

But if you apply a rule to the trans community that you'd consider an overreaction if it was applied to women, or even men, then that's not a rational reaction to a problem, it's hatred.

It's not a rule "applied to the trans community". What a bizarre way of framing it. It's having certain sex segregated spaces NOT ONLY for reasons of safety, but also for privacy and dignity.

Is Mumsnet entirely run by GC ideologues?

and I can most certainly assure you that this is not the case

No ReluctantCamper, that's not the case. Men are men. Trans men are men. Cis men are men. Gay men are men. Straight men are men. Trans women are not.

They are. It's never more obvious than when they argue about women's boundaries.

Why do transwomen want to be in women's spaces, is it for validation? It can't be for safety if women sexually assault too.

Purely for validation. There simply isn’t any other reason.

raindropsonkittens it's nothing to do with hatred. I don't want men in sex segregated womans spaces because they are statistically more likely to be a threat to me. I don't hate men, what a ludicrous suggestion.

Transwomen are men and are statistically more likely to be a risk to me when I am in a vulnerable position, therefore they should be excluded.

If transwomen are also at risk of violence from other men then they need to address male violence or campaign for trans spaces. The solution isn't to dilute woman's protections.

Cassie, I am more than willing to discuss this with you without finger pointing and ire. I have responded to your previous response to me, and invite your response to that.
There is a prevailing viewpoint here, yes, due to many of us being touched in our lives by a combination of male violence and oppression, trans partners bad behaviour, children identifying as trans and all manner of other life experience.

We're none of us stupid or gullible, and most of us came to our conclusions after much research. We're not disagreeing with you because we hate you.

I disagree with you in that I consider that trans women are not men.

We are all entitled to our own opinions, CassieBrighter. But we are not entitled to our own facts. Transwomen are men. The clue's in the "trans" bit. The penis is another.

How exactly do you define the word 'woman'? And "anyone who identifies as a woman" doesn't qualify, as it still doesn't define 'woman'.

We need a law that protects all trans people and lumping transwomen in with women doesn’t do diddly squat for non-binary, gender fluid, transmen, or agender people.

The only way a law can be written and applied evenly is for sex-at-birth to be the deciding factor, and then for all forms of gender identity and expression to be protected from discrimination in the workplace etc.

Completely agree Betty. As usual.

I see you don't want to answer the question about humans changing sex CassieBrighter

let's try this one:

in mammals we determine sex by looking at the gametes that members of each sex class produce.

what gametes do transwomen produce?

Sorry raindrops, my last post was directed at Cassie.

Ask the question honestly - show them a photo of people like Jess Bradley, tell them 80% of transwomen keep their penis. See how many women would then answer they don't mind.

in mammals we determine sex by looking at the gametes that members of each sex class produce.
Erm, so now you're excluding anyone infertile from being of either sex, including women who are past the menopause, and people who have survived cancer? And all pre reproductive children, obviously.

Simple definitions cut out a lot of the people you hope to protect from the perceived threat, you may have to work a bit harder to get something less exclusive.

Don’t be silly Raindrops!

Absolutely no one thinks that women stop being female after a hysterectomy! Not even you 😂

Er, no. Read the sentence you're responding to again, RaindropsOnKittens43. Or perhaps I should say just read it at all.

Raindrops

You seem to have missed the reference to sex class I have highlighted it in bold for ease of reference

in mammals we determine sex by looking at the gametes that members of each sex class produce.

geez louise Raindrops do you think I'm a noob?

in mammals we determine sex by looking at the gametes that members of each sex class produce.

A post-menopausal woman is a member of the class that produces large non-mobile gametes - ageing does not change a person's sex. A male of any age is not a member of the class that produces large non-mobile gametes, regardless of what artificial hormones they take of what plastic surgery they may have had.

You may want to try a new argument as this one has been comprehensively debunked many, many times before.

many, many x-posts!

members of each sex class produce.

Members of the class who produce....Not members who produce. That's why the words 'of the class' are there. FFS.

If you're going to use scientific definitions to support your view/ disprove the alternative view, at least get it correct and understand what they mean.

I'm still waiting to hear about the extra gametes we had in a thread a while back

don't think the poster on that thread ever came back

i had high hopes for some proper sci fi shit

Ah its like TRA bingo in here

Mind at the 'infertile women are not women under your definition!' suff comes out, I bugger off as this line of argument is both ridiculous and offensive tbh.

Though I will ask, what definition of 'transwomen' is being spoken of here? To both cassie and raindrops. See, if you are not going by stonewalls definition (which is in some cases anyone who makes no changes to yhemselve, may not even suffer dysphoria, but may like wearing lacy knickers as a bloke or a female wearing trousers...is trans) then you are being transphobic.

mmmm titchy

so all being well with their junk, which gametes would a transwoman produce?