organ transplant discussion on lbc right now

[Clairetree1]

anyone like to ring and explain they are opting out of organ donation because of claims of TRAs that they will be allowed to have our uteruses?

Nobody is going to be implanting wombs into men any time soon. What IS important and DOES need discussion is why these demands are being made, how this small vocal group of activists see women as objects to be used and harvested and how this trampling of women’s rights is happening across multiple fields at once. That’s the important stuff. What this shows up about their views of women.

As always, you say it better than I can. I also think we should be really listening to what the TRAs are saying - because we can see how quickly the conversation has moved and the demands have increased. TRAs are very very effective, and it would not surprise me at all if cross-sex uterine transplants come up as a possibility sooner than one expects.

However, this doesn't mean that I agree philosophically with opting out of the organ-donation register purely based on such a hypothetical scenario. Already there are nuances like choosing not to donate corneas, etc, that can be added to someone's preferences. Organ-donation is lifesaving and important.

There needs to be some sort of set up whereby donors can opt out of having some organs used in some ways

There is, you idiot.

Surely you don’t opt out of the whole thing, you just make sure your family know that your uterus is not for donation?

When I registered I opted out of the use of any part of my body which could be used for any assisted conception purposes. It would not matter now given my age but I made it clear that my ova could not be used.

There needs to be some sort of set up whereby donors can opt out of having some organs used in some ways

There is. I opted in decades ago and opted out for anything which could be used for assisted conception purposes.

I can't donate my organs so I'm fine.

I'm going to opt out anyway, just in case.

I'm going to opt out anyway, just in case

Just in case of what?

I will stay opted in with the same exception I have always had of anything which could be used for assisted conception. I have always felt very strongly that I did not want a child being created which was biologically or genetically linked to me but where I had had no involvement in or say in its conception.

My objection to that applies equally to potentional biological female recipients or trans women recipients. Any other organ, I don't care who gets it.

Would they object to their uterus being transplanted into a woman who was born without one, or whose uterus was non-functioning?

I have objected to that. If the rules change so that everyone is automatically opted in I need to re- register that as a specific opt out I will do so.

The points being made by the OP are very dubious and look like malicious scare-mongering.

Another cross-post for reference:
The Trans Pregnancy Group that I posted about earlier are a part of Leeds University and are being sponsored by the UK Economic and Social Research Council (ESRC)? Their main focus is supposed to be on transmasculine people and non-binary individuals (formerly known as females).
The speaker mentioned in their Tweets appears to be separate to this group, though, and researching at Liverpool University for a PhD in transgender reproductive rights.
The point is, these are not just "some crazy people on Twitter."

We should not be scaremongering about making people go off the organ register, but we have to be realistic and LISTEN to what trans activists are saying so we can carefully consider our own positions.

In case I die elsewhere other than in NHS England. Lass

No one should be getting a transplant of any of my organs due to a congenital condition that wouldn't be obvious.

I'm not going to live until my 90s that's for sure.

x

Transplantation of organs is a replacement of organs already in the body.

Implantation is different and rarely works.

And then this is definitely when biology is REAL. Usually the match is sexed and aged.

Many countries now have banned surrogacy.

Placemats, I could be wrong but you'd only be considered for organ donation in your home country anyway, no? Its not like you'd be chopped up for organs if you died in Jamaica. They'd bring you home.....and you'd not be fresh enough to be a donor. Donated organs are donated within minutes of death.

Gosh, that sounded quite Sweeny Todd, written as baldly as that. Unintentional, sorry

heresy I just looked the Trans Pregnancy Group up. They are researching pregnancy in trans men, ie biological females. I don't really have an issue on this being researched and money being spent and it's worth noting that they are sociologists, so their work will not involve any live tissue or anything, just reading books and talking to people.

On a side-note, I have seen Sally Hines (the principal investigator) on twitter and she doesn't seem terribly bright (evidenced partly by her obvious confusion between the words principal and principle but more so about her comments on 'TERFs').

But it's the NHS that runs the organ donor register. No other country would know whether you were on it or not. Plus I doubt other countries would want British organs because of BSE.

See current thread discussing lobbying & threat to sue NHS if trangender people are not granted parity of fertility treatment available (in principle) to cancer patients:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3326933-NHS-told-give-trans-patients-equal-access-to-fertility-service

I have seen Sally Hines (the principal investigator) on twitter and she doesn't seem terribly bright (evidenced partly by her obvious confusion between the words principal and principle but more so about her comments on 'TERFs')

Professor Sally Hines (University of Leeds) was one of the signatories in the open letter in support of Bristol student Nic Shall:

(extract)
"As feminist scholars, we are writing to express our concern at the news that disciplinary procedures have been initiated against a PhD student who petitioned against a discriminatory event associated with the University of Bristol.

The student, Nic Shall, wrote a petition opposing an event organised by the anti-trans campaign group “A Woman’s Place”. Shall has been accused by the Vice Chancellor’s office of writing a letter containing false information, attempting to suppress the free speech of fellow students, and bringing the university into disrepute. They have been threatened with expulsion.

We believe that the disciplinary action against Shall represents an attack on the democratic right to free expression, and that it is this action that brings the University of Bristol into disrepute. The student in question is, in effect, being threatened with expulsion for writing a petition. If the University of Bristol is to uphold the principle of free speech and encourage political debate, then students and staff must be afforded the right to openly express their principled opposition to bigotry and discrimination. (continues)

openletterbristol.wordpress.com/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3259500-Trans-Student-Faces-Expulsion-from-Univeristy-of-Bristol?pg=2

See also Professor Kathleen Stock's comments:
twitter.com/docstockk/status/1012588116601901057

See current thread discussing lobbying & threat to sue NHS if trangender people are not granted parity of fertility treatment available (in principle) to cancer patients:

That refers to freezing of sperm and ova. It's a bit of a leap to where the OP has gone.

PeakPants
I agree with you on principle, but they appear very supportive of this other researcher and the idea of uterine transplants for males on that social media thread. They are people in academia, with the cultural clout that entails and they are given funding. Might this all just end up as a journal article and never get anywhere? Sure. But I think it's a little foolish to dismiss people in the social sciences on the trans question - they seem to be driving much of this ideology and changes in policy.
We would do very well to remember when everyone was saying Danielle Muscato was a troll, and now we've got Alex Drummond - a "lesbian" backed up by Stonewall....
These ideas may be outlandish. They may never happen. But I've learned we need to at least consider as serious statements of intent. Quite frankly, I bet many years ago we would have thought hormone blockers/cross-sex hormones/operations for under-18s would never be a thing, either.

That refers to freezing of sperm and ova. It's a bit of a leap to where the OP has gone.

Sure. We shouldn't get too far ahead of ourselves, because this is what the trans activists mean for now. However, again we should keep an eye on potential things that could be coming down the pipeline.

That refers to freezing of sperm and ova. It's a bit of a leap to where the OP has gone.

The principle sought is parity with those diagnosed with cancer.

No one is going to start implanting uteruses into transwomen, no matter loud they shout or how much they believe/want it.

Whatever the reason people have to opt out, it's not really anyone else's business but if it's for that reason, they might need a head wobble.

Yeah but heresy nobody is researching/performing actual uterine implants in males and no funding will be given for it. I am pretty confident that the opinions of a halfwit sociologist (even if she is a professor) and her mates will not carry any sway whatsoever in the scientific community.
People research all sort of weird shit and get funded for it, especially in humanities and social sciences. Hines and co will write some articles that few people beyond academia will read, maybe do a few blog-posts, but it's such an enormous leap to think that this will in any way turn into the NHS giving womb transplants to men.

These ideas may be outlandish. They may never happen.

They basically can't happen. They're about as likely to happen as brain transplants.
Actually, maybe they should be performed as a one-off just to shut the TRAs up. They will 100% result in the male body rejecting the organ and will lead to serious medical risks like sepsis. There is no way on earth that they could ever sustain a human life. How the frick would a male body be able to deliver the nutrients and create the conditions needed to grow a baby? How would you even implant the embryo? Totally impossible, no matter how badly they want them.

People research all sort of weird shit and get funded for it, especially in humanities and social sciences. Hines and co will write some articles that few people beyond academia will read, maybe do a few blog-posts, but it's such an enormous leap to think that this will in any way turn into the NHS giving womb transplants to men.

I sincerely, honestly, truly hope you are right.
But we live in a world where male genitalia is written about in national newspapers like it's on a woman. Where a woman who took her underage child to Thailand for a permanent surgical procedure (illegal in the UK) is celebrated as a heroine. Where we are genuinely debating what a "female" is legally.
So when we have tweets like this from prominent TRAs, and groups that are researching this, I am going to pay attention now. Even if it means it's another layer of tin foil on my hat.