Can Men Be Feminists?

[Yambabe]

Musing. While I've always been on the side of equality and rights for women I don't think, in the past, I would have called myself a feminist.

I'm now starting to do a little more background reading about history and feminist theories, but only really started and don't have the knowledge that I know some of you all do.

The more I read the more interesting it get though, and the more I realise that there is no one-size-fits-all definition of feminism. The basic premise seems to be that society treats men as superior to women, women are oppressed by patriarchy and that feminism exists in all its various forms to try and lift that oppression and attain true equality for women.

So with that in mind, is feminism something that only women can truly understand or is it something that can be open to anyone who understands the premise? There are undoubtedly some men who empathise with the theories and aims of feminism but are they feminists or just supporters?

Not sure where I'm going with this, just curious to see how others view it I think. Also happy to take on board any reading recommendations (although I have already found the other sections of FWR to be a great resource).

you don't belong in this group - you are a straight white male

Oh shit, if only there were other people in a similar predicament he could hang around with....

I must admit, they've got the handing over of the baton down to a tee on this thread!!

PP -> Claire -> Sawdust -> ??

I think as women we ALL grow up under the patriarchy- we cannot go through life untouched by it and that means we inevitably absorb its messages. We often internalise the hatred of women and so we DO make unfeminist (made up word there) choices.

My guilty pleasure is the Real Housewives series...I watch it even though I KNOW the messages it gives out about women are just terrible!

But men CANNOT be feminists. They are part of the oppressing group. They can never get away from that.

I think it's a really interesting question. I've been thinking about it for years and I'm increasingly of the view that men probably could be feminists if they wanted to be, but they're unwilling to do the homework. Also they weren't listening when the homework was set, don't know where to look it up, won't ask a friend and can't even be arsed to copy someone else's.

I've also very recently come to the conclusion that men can't say anything useful on the question of whether men can be feminists.

I think the males on this thread have made very 'informative' contributions.

No men can't be feminists but they can help change things for the better, we all have Mothers and female family. Firstly we have to think is this how I would want my family and friends to be treated? Is my/your behavior or attitude making any woman feel threatened or uncomfortable. challenge misogyny/sexism when you see it . Just small steps the average guy can take to help our female family and friends to make things change for the better.

I refer the Honourable Member to my post of 8.50am.

@BertandRussell, Sorry missed that post, Wish I could've put my points across as eloquently as you

Sorry- I didn't mean to sound like a smart arse. Just wanted to agree with you!

No. Nor should we want to. Not welcome, not required. Plus the football season is about to start again - there's other stuff that requires our attention.

@BertandRussell, You never came across as one ,

Both my DF and my late DH had feminist values. My darling dad, a retired GP, supports a charity that repairs birth injuries in Africa. Very typical thing for him to do. My DH helped get my small business off the ground by doing the wifework and by providing endless support and encouragement. I made it happen, but I couldn't have done it without him.

Neither would describe themselves as feminists. They'd laugh like drains at the idea. My DH would immediately have spotted the sort of men who claim to be feminists to virtue signal and chat up women. He'd have ripped the piss out of them.

Feminism is broadly understood to be the belief that both sexes should have equality. On those terms there is no reason why a man can't be a feminist.

Not surprising after 40 years of backlash consisting of men and commercial feminists insisting that Feminism, the political movement for the liberation of women, should be about equality for everyone, and businesses using feminism as a marketing tool.
3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.

We did not get here by accident. The war on women was a cold war during the eighties and nineties and now it has heated up again as it always does.

A lot of women watch porn. Does that mean they can't be feminists?

People who watch the rape, torture, and abuse, of women for pleasure and sexual stimulation are not Feminists, no.
They can become a Feminist I suppose, but it would take a great deal of effort if porn is their idea of entertainment.

Some men I know are better feminists than some women I know

Men are better at everything than women are, did't you know? Including being women. Ask any MRA or TRA and they will be delighted to mansplain it to you in a wall'o text.

Many of the examples men give of them being disadvantaged are actually them not belonging to a disadvantaged group, and so not able to benefit from assistance given to members of that group.

At least one given on this thread is an example of an institution failing a care leaver. IDK why it was presented as the fault of feminists.

As I read along the thread back to front I am beginning to get a picture of these nice guys at the pub being used as examples of 'women do it too'. I too have seen them many times in pub targeting a group of women and refusing to take no for an answer.

It's interesting, isn't it, that men only have to do one vaguely feminist thing to be lauded feminists or feminist allies. However, a woman only has to put on a pair of high heels for the anti feminists to dance round her chanting about her not being a feminist now, huh? Huh? Huh?

We all have to live in this world together. What you (rad fems) are saying is that you want it all your way, or not at all.

So unfair to keep insisting that we want an end to male violence against women when men enjoy it so very much. There must be a compromise where Feminists agree to sacrifice some women to rape torture and abuse for the sake of men's boner.

No. Just no.

I will have some of AFs pancakes though if she has plum sauce and is in the mood to share ...

That sounds delish. You inspire me. All the plums ripened at once in the hot weather so I made plum sauce with the Lemon Curd recipe just yesterday and will now make pancakes.

Didn't even make it off the first page before the penis announced their arrival.

of course we can, due to our superior brains we don't need to experience oppression in order to understand it. if feminists would let men run feminism, female oppression would be sorted within a year.

;)

On a serious note, this was interesting:

"Anger, resentment, contempt for women as a group (misogyny)

and/or

Enthusiasm about women being commoditised into exploitable, disposable units for their convenience (sexism, male entitlement)

and/or

Crass, insensitive ignorance about the impact male dominance, male violence, cultural misogyny and sexism has upon women and girls choices, decisions, life experience, realistic expectations and self-perception (male privilege)"

This could apply to many self-professed female feminists. Particularly libfems.

I suspect that is because feminism is now used as a marketing tool instead of a political movement.

Female libfems may have internalised misogyny but they don't have either male entitlement or male privilege