Can Men Be Feminists?

[Yambabe]

Musing. While I've always been on the side of equality and rights for women I don't think, in the past, I would have called myself a feminist.

I'm now starting to do a little more background reading about history and feminist theories, but only really started and don't have the knowledge that I know some of you all do.

The more I read the more interesting it get though, and the more I realise that there is no one-size-fits-all definition of feminism. The basic premise seems to be that society treats men as superior to women, women are oppressed by patriarchy and that feminism exists in all its various forms to try and lift that oppression and attain true equality for women.

So with that in mind, is feminism something that only women can truly understand or is it something that can be open to anyone who understands the premise? There are undoubtedly some men who empathise with the theories and aims of feminism but are they feminists or just supporters?

Not sure where I'm going with this, just curious to see how others view it I think. Also happy to take on board any reading recommendations (although I have already found the other sections of FWR to be a great resource).

Perhaps you could organise a small radfem focus group to pitch your posting history to? I have very reasonable daily consultancy rates.

Men can't be feminists because their penises insist on taking over conversations among women about men being incapable of feminism.

Q
E
D

It's sad, really.

Over 50% of female prisoners are DV survivors with a head injury.

Female prison inmates subject to 'excessive strip-searching' despite many being victims of sexual abuse

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/female-prison-inmates-strip-searching-sexual-abuse-victims-physical-rape-uk-prisoners-inspectorate-a8172761.html

I'd say that's oppressive and systematic.

Yeah we are totally secretly enjoying victimhood.
If you believe that you probably believe the orgasms in porn are real.

...and that prostitutes do the job because they really love sex.

It would be easier all round to list that kind of info in your profile.

Yes. A series of bon mots would be super useful and would save us time away from enjoying our overwhelming victim complexes.

... and all those British women taken abroad to marry, raped until pregnant then used as a visa mechanism to import a husband?

They just LOVE it 🤦🏻‍♀️

What about those women PP? Do you care about them? Are they oppressed by the system? Many raised objections to their spousal visa and half were ignored by the HOME OFFICE THEMSELVES.

How is that not systematic repression? Answers on a postcard...

of course they can

can you state one belief that a feminist has that a man ca't have? - no

can you sate one thing that feminist does that a man can't do? -no

it is sexist to say men can't be feminist

Hmm, PP, you mentioned boards using the argument everyone always does: but, but what about the miniscule number of professions which are dominated by females (and generally afforded lower status). But yes, if you are serious, there clearly are areas dominated by one sex or other (usually, frankly, the other ie men). So I'll be generous and give you midwives - but then I would argue that across the whole of the medical profession the representation will be male heavy and should be addressed and not just in those areas which the men have generously ceded to women. Especially as many women are in the broader profession.

BTW, midwives is am appalling example as it an area specifically related to women's health and where women tend to need dignity. Funnily enough though, I don't reckon you'd get the same female dominance in other 'female' areas of medicine. I may be wrong - I'm sure someone knows about representation on gynaegology panels.

You made nonspecific comments about Bechdel which you "nearly" jumped on. But didn't.

I can read your posts, you know and you were asked to go through point by point, but you really haven't answered anything else.

So porn?

please advanced search my username to see my thoughts.

So we are not oppressed (please comment on the wage inequalities) but we are unable to search without a of how to do it.

Obviously Ada Lovelace and Grace Hopper mean nothing to you, you can advance search Google to find out about them.

Sassh

wage inequalities

Come on, gender pay gap? Really?

PP- I think you're supposed to talk about the difficult and dangerous jobs men do now. Then a bit of a pause, and on to family courts. Brief detour round front line soldiers and the need for places for men in domestic abuse refuges-then finishing up with how male suicide rates are feminists' fault.

Now I've saved you all that time, can you "critique" my list?

Oh, Sassh, there we go! A full answer on wage inequality with references and everything.

And a pat on your bottom to see you out the door no doubt...

Actually, I think PP is a plant - a feminist masquerading as a paternalistic numpty. No-one can really be this tone deaf?

To be fair Bertrand I wasn't going to bring any of those things up, you know I never do, I don't need to.

I only mentioned the midwives thing as an example, not as an argument (although it's perfectly valid)

I've done your lists before. You know where to find my answers.

But it is not just a gender pay gap is it? There are other inequalities that feed in to it. But if you want to go for the simplest form could you explain how it exists in a society where women are not oppressed?

Oh and it is sashh

Perhaps you should publish a compendium of your collected posts, PP, and then you could direct people to page references rather than merely telling us to search? We could chip in with some cover art suggestions.

I think my biggest observation

I don't care about your observation.

It seems that nobody else dos either.

Why are you so determined to tell women what they should be thinking?

Oh, I see, you want us to the work for you by searching all and everything you may have ever written that touches on Bertrand's list?

We're not your PA!

So challenging sexist language? What's your considered objection? You could even copy and paste...

I wonder if women and girls who were born and raised in western countries but who have been subjected to FGM feel oppressed. They're probably just revelling in their victimhood though.

we're not your PA

Thankfully.

Oh no, he negged our PA skills. Can a woman suffer any crueller blow?

So when a male describes himself as a feminist you get a small blast of misogyny, sexism, male entitlement and privilege in one. It makes me really uncomfortable that there are these young men claiming it. It is very arrogant. Decent men are supportive of women and girls and they work on themselves. They say things like 'I support feminism' or 'I do what I can, but i'll never really know what it's like to be a woman' etc.

Definitely agree with this.

I don't think I have ever met a man who was not sexist. Its ingrained, I think in some cases its something men might try to fight against all their lives but its still there.

And I view any bloke who outright states he is a feminist with suspicion, as I agree they tend to do it to mark themselves as 'different from other men'. And they do, from experience, turn out to be abusers fairly often. The most 'feminist' man I ever knew, by that I mean the one who always said the right things and masked himself very very well, turned out to be beating his wife behind closed doors, and sexually abusing her too.

Something else I have noticed is when men describe themselves as feminist, the most important things to them seem to be things that benefit men. For example, they will almost always be 'libfems' who are 'sex positive' and will yell 'swerf' and such at anyone who criticizes punters

They also seem to be 'feminism is about equality, what are feminists doing for men?!' type people.

“I've done your lists before. You know where to find my answers.”

Easy for you to do a quick C&P.

and I hate seeing people constantly having a go at decent kind sensitive individuals simply because they are straight white men, and are deemed to be somehow be fair game for sneering and put downs, and being constantly told " you couldn't possibly understand"

yes they can understand, just explain your experiences to them.

I have straight white male sons, friends and students. I have in the past had a straight white male father and brothers.

They are not a lesser breed!

They are frequently treated as if they were though