Excellent counter-view to ROGD

[garam]

Usually when you see hashtags about a diagnosis that doesn't stem from the medical establishment, you would be right to be dubious.
The anti-vaxxers are a good comparison.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1021324454067163136.html

Thanks for your story. Siblings are also ggetef by this. This is why it is not just about the trans child

Effected

"I've just done that search that icy is getting a bit overexcited by

And it came up exactly the same as datun no steakhouse to be seen

I didnt look at the website as ive no fucking interest in doing so

But that's absolutely what came up"

You mean DeviantArt? Already been posted about several times? The website that is "one of the biggest sites featuring original photography, digital art, traditional art, literature, and filmmaking, and also one of the world's largest repository of free-to-use stock imagery and photography.

Got it's name because "DeviantArt started as a site connected with people who took computer applications and modified them to their own tastes, or who "deviated" the applications from the original designs. As the site grew, members in general became known as "deviants" and submissions as "deviations""

Includes such devastating material found in the screenshots. Including a set of pearls to clutch should you find such material too 'racy'. Anything considered 'Mature' locked away behind a filter that can only be switched off by signing up for an account and specifically agreeing to seeing Mature-rated images. Any and all art-work depicting explicit acts of sex forbidden from the site and banned when found. Damning stuff, no doubt, apart from, you know, Twitter and Reddit hosting content more explicit than actually allowed on DeviantArt. If somebody posting to DeviantArt makes them verboten to the users here, I wonder what you think about all those fellow posters on this board who freely admit to using Twitter and Reddit.

"I didnt look at the website as ive no fucking interest in doing so"

Always nice to know there's somebody else on here honest enough to admit they won't engage in simple basic research like, say, reading wikipedia to find out what a site is. But hey, if baseless ad hominem attacks are all you got, perhaps that's why you avoid the research. All those pesky facts, getting in the way and all.

Icy, you wouldn't fancy wandering off and starting your own thread would you.

I'm sure all this anime chat is very interesting to you, but it's really boring to most of us and nothing to do with the thread.

A cynical person might think that you were trying to derail to (a) stop us talking about important things (2) deliberately goad posters in an effort to get them banned and (3) cause a bunfight so the thread will be deleted.

I do not think anyone here is stupid enough to read wikipedia for any reason related to research.
I reported your trolling of this thread, IcyNoll.

Icy seems a bit triggered, maybe he should go outside, have some ice cream, and cool off a bit.

Of course anime is a thing with the teen girls wanting to be trans. It's yaoi - I think I spelled it wrong but don't want to Google - even south park did an episode where the girls were all obsessed with gay anime characters.
You can see the appeal, softer/non threatening boys in a much more equal relationship - stark contrast with het porn. It's like the ultimate romantic fantasy to girls who want an alternative to pornsick objectification.
A lot of trans stories of teen girls start with some version of 'my online anime/art community included some older trans people who told me I was special'

A lot of us are mothers here. We were teen girls. We know grooming when we see it.

To the trans activists on here who think non affirming parents are abusive then listen to what others think of me.

No-one thinks that Tww1. Transactivists certainly don't think it.

The hyperbole is a strategy. It's all part and parcel with literal violence and any disagreement being called transphobic.

I know it's incredibly upsetting for you. And this is easy to say, but try not to take it seriously. It's done to goad.

You come across as a sensible, responsible loving parent who is concerned for their child's welfare.

Threadreader version of Transgender Trend's twitter thread (linked previously) with some parents' descriptions and experiences:

"#ROGDWEEK2018 is a chance for parents' voices and testimonies to be heard. We will be adding parents' testimonies to this thread, feel free to add your own"

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1022884731476746240.html"

TWW1 You are telling it how it is and I know how much courage that takes

I recognise everything you say about ROGD - the scripted words, the revision and dismantling of their past, the traumatic effect on siblings, the refusal to discuss, the secrecy, the stealth, the personality changes, the lies, the replacement of biological family with 'queer family'.

The mental and physical toll it takes on everyone is enormous.

Tweet comment SunMum:
twitter.com/Mum3Sun/status/1022801276512464896

an important point to me is that the ultimate conclusion of being trans is making fundamental changes to your body that will leave a child sterile, with impaired sexual function and a lifelong medical patient.

what responsible parent wouldn't work to get their child off that path if at all possible? for the parents who have posted on this thread.

if the gender expectations inflicted on children are causing them confusion and distress we should be changing the expectations, not children's bodies.

Reluctantcamper you've nailed it

it's one of the reasons why conflating being trans with being gay is so misleading. what are the physical consequences of being gay?

Below is an article from Lily Maynard, via the link from R0wantrees

She asked for examples of ROGD on Twitter. Within the first 48 hours of posting, she had dozens and dozens of replies. I've copied a few below.

This is, beyond doubt, a national scandal. And needs urgent attention.

Although I knew about it, these stories are still shocking, frightening and heartbreaking. I had no idea of the scale.

Tww you are not alone. Thank you for speaking up. The deniers should be ashamed.

"My quirky, non-conforming, socially awkward, very intelligent daughter decided she was a boy after a summer spent on YouTube & Tumblr. Dysphoria followed. This has eased now, and nearly two years later she is a lot happier in her body… Schools need sensible advice on how to help children like my daughter.

---

My d is a classic case: high IQ, ADHD, anxiety, some ASD symptoms, artist, anime, hard time fitting in w/alpha girls, romanticizes mental illness, romanticizes being LGBT member, trauma, afraid of physical intimacy, etc. Surprise announcement at 15… I forgot to mention this new identity bubbled up after she became completely immersed in and enamored with DeviantArt and Tumblr. Those two sites seem to breed transgender identities.

---

My daughter came out as trans age 12/13. Outgrew it by age 17. I was encouraged by well meaning people to put her on puberty blockers – which could have caused bone damage & cognitive delays….. It was agonizing. I was so worried about her. And I felt completely alone. Every other parent of a trans child I saw in the media was “so happy” about their child being transgender. No mention of the risks involved, no expression of fear or loss. It was awful.

---

My daughter qualifies. No dysphoria at puberty at 11. Very feminine after. Decided she was trans around 16 along with an entire friend group. Tumblr, deviantART, YouTube, anime, cosplay, ADHD, anxiety, anorexia, social problems. Currently thinks she’s a gay man.

lilymaynard.wordpress.com/2018/07/28/rogd-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

The number of girls who think they are gay men. How can this insanity be happening with our government and politicians fannying about with the one issue of self ID.

I think you need to calm down icy

What i saw on the page looked like a load of very pretty pictures if thats any help didnt look any further as im not fussed about anime...not because im worried about what id see

And deviant is just a word....lots of people use words that dont have their original meaning any more

Like wicked or sick

Not sure where i made an attack and i dont have any pearls to clutch and ive made no judgement on the site itself

Its just you seemed to be doubting that it had come up on datun search

But you carry on, i can tell youre a fan

lways nice to know there's somebody else on here honest enough to admit they won't engage in simple basic research like, say, reading wikipedia to find out what a site is. But hey, if baseless ad hominem attacks are all you got, perhaps that's why you avoid the research. All those pesky facts, getting in the way and all

Should clarify that i didnt look because im not fussed about anime rather than not wanting to research something that has fuckall to do with the thread

Just wanted to make that clear before you actually have a heartattack

The research was seeing who was 'right' about the search

Google remembers previous searches and partially bases your results on that, I believe, and therefore I conclude that in addition to anime Icy must really like steak.

But yes...sorry

Ignoring the derail now

twitter.com/LilyLilyMaynard/status/1023041835063750656

Lily Maynard comments:
(extract)
"There’s an ongoing battle between those who recognise Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (ROGD) as ‘a thing’ and those who deny it exists. ROGD believers are mostly gender-critical parents and professionals, who have seen it with their own eyes in their children or patients, to them it is undeniable. I am firmly in this camp, having seen ROGD in my own daughter, who is now eighteen and desisted nearly two years ago.

ROGD deniers seem to be mostly transgender people and parents who’ve transitioned their own children. Organisations like Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence and Allsorts are also scathing, because if ROGD exists it challenges the ‘born in the wrong body’ narrative. They claim that parents who observe ROGD in their own children just hadn’t noticed the signs that their child was trans, or that the child had kept it secret from them. Either argument is grounded in the idea of bad or inadequate parenting and assumes a closed and unproductive relationship with the child.

The reality is that many healthcare professionals recognise ROGD as a reality.

Tania Marshall, M.Sc., psychologist, and award winning author accepts the veracity of the condition (left) and therapist and Jungian analyst Lisa Marchiano responds here to a trans-identifed teen who says “recently I have been reading some of your writing on “Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria…. if my parents knew what ROGD was, they would probably argue that I am in that category. I came out to them about a year ago and I hadn’t shown any gender dysphoria in early childhood.”
In addition, and perhaps most significantly, some clinicians at the Gender Identity Development Service at the Tavistock clinic in London, which deals with gender dysphoric children, recently acknowledged the term. You can read their article in the Journal of Child Psychotherapy here , and the Twitter thread pictured to the left here. " (continues)

lilymaynard.wordpress.com/2018/07/28/rogd-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria/

@ReluctantCamper

'it's one of the reasons why conflating being trans with being gay is so misleading. what are the physical consequences of being gay?'

Very true. And I believe also a number of girls (females) going through a 'trans phase' may brveothrr lesbian (apparently this word is really not liked so they say gay) or bi or are going through a phase of not being attracted to real boys (as early teenagers who can blame them!) Or being attracted to other girls or anime boys.

Lots of young women have crushes on other girls or women in their teens and twenties (including me) but 'end up' straight. My daughter is a teenager and only one of her friends is described (by dd) as straight.

In terms of sexuality I don't care what my child is, other children are. But sexuality and 'gender' do seem to get conflated.

Of course I would never use the word 'phase' with dd and her friends.

I'm kind of hoping the trend becomes very 'masculine' girls and very 'feminine' boys. Like the 80's Adam Ant!

Just waiting for the next craze, this one has been here too long and has done so much harm. It's got zero to do with actual transsexual people in most cases. Confining on this path will enshrine in law changes that hurt women and children especially girls.

These girls are being co-opted into a very male fantasy.

I cannot believe our government is buying this shit.

'...may be lesbian...'

I cannot believe our government is buying this shit.

Same here.

Fortunately the truth, and the scope, is becoming more widely known.

As more people begin to realise that the criticism 'transphobia' is often a silencing tactic, the dots get joined up pretty quickly.

And yes to crushes at school. Years ago, it was such a widely known, and acceptable, phenomenon, it was called a pash. and many girls had them, particularly for older girls. I'm assuming pash was short for passion.

Well, this thread has been um... an interesting read.

I don't know. You bugger off for a day and miss all the fun.