The vast majority of male born transwomen still retain a penis

[IJustHadToNameChange]

fairplayforwomen.com/penis/

Stats for arguing with waiverers.

Honestly, if evidence is ever needed that men who transition don't lose their privilege and typical male behavior, I'm using this thread..

I'd like to see some of the decades of "data" that show a genetic or neurologic basis for trans.

But you know what? Even if such data existed, I STILL wouldn't want biologic males (i.e. penis-havers) in women's spaces.

I want a designated third space that ANY individual who has a need for privacy could safely use. Not just trans or gender non-conforming individuals who may feel uncomfortable sharing vulnerable spaces with their biologic peers, but for people with special medical needs. Leave women's spaces alone and just for women.

Yourfriendly, would you be willing to agree that if a third neutral space were available, you would be content using it?

There must be quite a few MRAs who get rather shocked that they are stripped of their own superpower on an anonymous forum.

Of 12 million women.

All talking.

And not giving a toss what they think.

Having to actually contemplate responding to the word no, without using their superpower of male privilege? How novel. How impossible.

How revealing.

Anyway since when has a public bathroom been a public space? Public bathrooms are sex segregated, so they are spaces intended for the members of that sex class, just as much as private members clubs are segregated spaces for those private members. The area with the sinks and hand dryers is just as sex segregated as the toilet cubicles themselves, so actually, my boundaries as a woman are just as valid in those spaces as well.

I do struggle a little with talk of public bathrooms: 'two nations separated by the same language' !
obviously far more important issues in the thread

R0wantrees

Love it! Guilty as charged. What are the preferred terms in the UK for such places? Loo? WC? Restroom? Facility? This is one instance where I don't have a problem adjusting my language. :)

GeorgeFayne

Toilets.

ah right, so now my womanhood is contingent on me automatically agreeing with whatever it is you say? Doesn't sound particularly feminist to me,

Honey, my womanhood gets doubted here too whenever I dare to disagree. Truth is, if you are a gobby woman on MumsNet and stand up for trans women, intersex women - or are one of those two, that it doesn't take long to be called a TRA or man.

As you say, it's the opposite of feminism encouraging women to find their voices. Here one is expected to agree with the majority line. I have been in less oppressive male-dominated environments than this.

I have been in less oppressive male-dominated environments than this.

See? Terrible shock when you can't shut women up, isn't it?

Vicky
Thank you!

It amuses me that the default American terms for toilets all try to divert attention away from what people actually do in them.

I think the best one I ever saw was "powder room". Sounds so ladylike, like you just nip in to reapply your makeup and please nobody mention pissing, that would be so uncouth.

We don't tend to say WC, restroom, facility or bathroom.

We say loo, toilet, sometimes lavatory if you're being polite, or the ladies if you're specifically asking. Excuse me, where is the ladies? But it's a bit twee. Toilet, or loo, generally.

"Restroom" has to be the most euphemistic of all American terms for the bogs, surely?

george

The bog

(I use loo...)

The shitter!

AAK that remind me of a Cecil Parkinson quote. He was very camp and famously adored his cats. When asked once where they were by a visitor, said they were "in the garden, powdering their noses."

I just want to reiterate that I feel a lot of sympathy for HomefromtheHills and Tryingtounderstand who both posted way back at the beginning of the thread.

They are both examples of (in my experience) average dysphoric transwomen, able to understand what’s at stake for women and girls, and likely to get thrown under the bus by new-fangled TRA types.

I absolutely stand with transpeople as they fight for adequate healthcare and the right to transition without discrimination in the workplace, appropriate elder care, proportional representation in public office etc.

In return, I hope they can stand with us as we oppose the removal of necessary safeguarding structures for women and children. I believe more and more transpeople are realising what’s potentially at stake.

GeorgeFayne

Thank you but please don't adjust your language- I wouldn't dream of suggesting you did such a thing! (unsurprisingly this being the English there has been for many years a toilet / loo / WC divide also! )

It's worth reiterating that Fairplay For Women's statement which is the OP is in response to a current UK Government consultation.

Lol.

Spending a penny.

Re: words for toilets - some variations geographical and class based, I use toilet when making posts about same sex facilities but loo colloquially, ‘WC’ when being fake-posh and ‘lavvie’ when being purposefully crass.

Bathroom is only ever for rooms with a bath in them.

I think 'Temple of Convenience' was rather wonderful... I seem to remember a book of the same title with a collection of some of the most wonderful examples. Lucinda Lampton?

Never thought of it that way! "Excuse me while I go take a 'rest' in a room that smells like shit, where I might contract herpes or get raped." Toilet really is the better term. Succinct and to the point.

Don't even get me started on American "rest areas!"

Oh yes, don't get started on the toilet vs lavatory debate. You'll get dragged into what's common and what's not. Or u and non u (and whether it's bad to even talk about it).

You'll be here for daaaaayz.

I actually asked a man where the bogs were at the hospital the other week. I was surprised I said it, then slightly embarrassed, then didn’t give a fuck.

Loo at home, toilet when in polite society.