The vast majority of male born transwomen still retain a penis

[IJustHadToNameChange]

fairplayforwomen.com/penis/

Stats for arguing with waiverers.

Yourfriendly - I find your post at 14.36 shocking.

And then to mention that female rape victims can’t help it if they get wet! And you say you’re a woman...

Why the fuck are @MNHQ letting this happen on here? This is not debate, this is certain posters intentionally stirring the pot and upsetting women. There are women on these boards who have been horribly traumatised by rape and sexual abuse, and you’re allowing these posters to goad, and needle. Shame on you.
Its fucking disgusting, MRAs and abusive men are given more protection than the people you claim to serve. There’s a special place in hell for women who throw other women under the bus.
This thread has really upset me.

It seems like historically MRAs and assorted other misogynists have always been able to piss all over threads here without being deleted or banned. I tend to avoid rape threads for that reason - I figure that if I answer those men the way they deserve to be answered then it'll be me who gets punished, because apparently MNHQ thinks that the voices of misogynists add something of value to discussions about women being traumatized by male violence.

And your definition can't be something like "A.Snargle is anyone who identifes as a Snargle". Because you're still left with no definition at all of what a Snargle actually is, YourFriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans.

Of course if you say a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman then a lot of women - possibly most of us - don't qualify because we don't "identify" as woman any more than my gecko "identifes" as a gecko. We just are women.

YourFriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans
The word 'cis' is banned here. Read the guidelines
www.mumsnet.com/info/trans-rights-moderation-policy

We're not allowed to refer to transwomen as 'trans identified males'. You're not allowed to refer to women as 'cis'.

It works both ways. We're complying. Why aren't you?

As when India Willoughby criticised Karen Ingala Smith's Counting Dead Women site for giving men a bad press. The priorities are clear.

Quite.

This is actually the first time I have seen one of these obvious obvious MRA type arguments in real time. Usually I come across it later and its like swiss cheese. Its been eye opening, anyway.

Vickyyyy

I get torn between watching misogynists distress women, but knowing it's proving our point.

So very many women have said it's not the gender critical position that has finally swung their opinion, it's the trans position.

Which I think is quite a common reaction for people who don't necessarily call themselves feminists.

(Well, there are an awful lot more who do call themselves feminists once they encounter this ideology.)

Tension
Feel free too. It's a quote which is entirely out of context and literally cuts out half of the sentence to make me look bad.

It's a smear. Use that tactic if you want, I'll just direct people to the original post and expose your lies. :)

Oh dear, is this where you think I'll quiver and faint at your "threat"?

My lies?

Your words.

And here's the full section the quote came from:

In a public space like a public bathroom? Your boundaries kinda get limited to the reasonable expectation of privacy. That is to say that as long as I'm not doing anything creepy or weird, and I'm just there to use the facilities and leave? I'm respecting all legitimate boundaries.

I don't think you have a legitimate boundary which extends into the cubicle next to yours and have no right to decide that person doesn't get to be there because you personally believe they aren't a woman, or that penises are weapons of mass destruction.

Taking your full comment, doesn't make you any less of a creep who thinks it's fun to ridicule women or girls for defending their right to women only spaces. You have no clue what being a woman is, as that is spelled out so clearly in this, and every other post you've made here & elsewhere. Not a fucking clue.

Some transwomen posting on MN would do well to actually read and digest what women say are their lived experiences from childhood to adults, and maybe have some self reflection on whether they really do understand what womanhood is, for women & young girls who actually live that.

I note the use of the phrase "public bathroom" by our wind-up merchant, together with reference to some bizarre American data from a phone poll.

Just sayin'...

TensionWheelsCoolHeels is spot on, YourFriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans.

Taking your full comment, doesn't make you any less of a creep who thinks it's fun to ridicule women or girls for defending their right to women only spaces. You have no clue what being a woman is, as that is spelled out so clearly in this, and every other post you've made here & elsewhere. Not a fucking clue.

I don't think you have a legitimate boundary

Yes, dear - we know that's what you think. That's why we don't like you. It's all so meet the new boss: same as the old boss.

America? Golly. All that way, culturally speaking, just to tell a bunch of women we're womaning wrong, eh, VickyEadie.

America? Golly. All that way, culturally speaking, just to tell a bunch of women we're womaning wrong, eh, VickyEadie.

Exactly my point.

Well, my oh my.

It took ten seconds of "NO" from women for the incel/MRA rhetoric to flood right out, didn't it?

Gosh. How predictable it all is.

How womanly. Not.

Have you noticed we never get a response to the notion we keep repeating - that self-id opens up women's spaces to predatory men who WILL use it to gain access to us?

It's always just the same old 'you're being silly', 'transwomen are no threat to you' (despite increasing evidence to the contrary, e.g. recent TW who assaulted 4 women in women's prison) and now 'women are just as rapey as men'.

I've spent my life being afraid of men raping me in secluded places, dark streets, etc. Never once been afraid that a woman might. Statistics in the UK prove me right.

YourFriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans is a boundary smashing man.

The bit that baffles me as ever is why if one desperately wants to be and be accepted as one of the gels

one ignores every damn word they say about what being a gel actually means.

Perhaps we could introduce a badge scheme like the brownies:

I earn less than penis folk
Penis folk show them to me unrequested
Penis folk have made me scared
Penis folk want to tell me who I am and what I am
Penis folk want to tell me why I am so wrong about penis folk
Penis folk want me to understand that all my experience is piffle paffle blah blah
Penis folk want me to understand that everything is all about them all of the time.

In a public space like a public bathroom? Your boundaries kinda get limited to the reasonable expectation of privacy. That is to say that as long as I'm not doing anything creepy or weird, and I'm just there to use the facilities and leave? I'm respecting all legitimate boundaries.

Seriously your?

You're setting yourself up as the arbitrator of limitations to women's boundaries?

Followed by you deciding (that's you deciding), what's creepy and weird.

And concluding that you, (that's you concluding) that you are respecting said boundaries.

So just to recap.

You decide the boundaries, you decide what is creepy behaviour and then you decide whether or not that constitutes the respect to boundaries that you are the arbiter of in the first place.

I promise I'm not just saying this, it's almost fucking funny.

If someone could earn all of the badges it would be a start

But they still couldn't come in our spaces with a penis

But they wouldn't want to because they'd understand why not

Yup Datun, Yours 'gotcha' isn't quite the slam dunk see what I did there? An Americanism, sure Yours will get that they think it is.

Creepy is as creepy does.

It took ten seconds of "NO" from women for the incel/MRA rhetoric to flood right out, didn't it?

It's almost as though we can tell what's coming as we frame the word no.

Douglas Adams said "It is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

It is, or should be, an equally well-known fact that those penis-owners who most want to enter women's spaces are, ipso facto, those least suited to be allowed in.

I don't think you have a legitimate boundary

I dont think posting the whole comment is making it any better to be honest

Douglas Adams said "It is a well-known fact that those people who most want to rule people are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it."

It is, or should be, an equally well-known fact that those penis-owners who most want to enter women's spaces are, ipso facto, those least suited to be allowed in.

Very apt quote, 👍

It's almost as though we can tell what's coming as we frame the word no.

Do you think we have supernatural powers of premonition?! We have the mad skillz?

Or, perish the thought, could it be something to with being a woman and subject to this level of dull, mundane, predictability on a daily basis? Surely not!