The vast majority of male born transwomen still retain a penis

[IJustHadToNameChange]

fairplayforwomen.com/penis/

Stats for arguing with waiverers.

Sex is a binary in your opinion - but that isn't the opinion of other people. Many people view it as a spectrum. Neither lens to view sex through is wrong, they both have their uses in different situations.

How do you think babies are made, YourFriendlyNeighbourhoodTrans?

Yourfriendly, you said I think its grounds for better spaces - but the idea that spaces must be segregated along the lines of sex? That isn't really supported by the data.

Firstly - what data?

Secondly, do you not see that in general, if you (general you) were a victim of violence of any sort, then the perpetrator is most likely to be a male, with a penis, irrespective of how they 'present'? This is one of the reasons why we have sex segregated spaces, to protect women. Unfortunately it does mean those born male who are vulnerable do not have access to the same protection as women from violent men.

The answer isn't to force women to move over.

Sex is a binary in your opinion - but that isn't the opinion of other people. Many people view it as a spectrum. Neither lens to view sex through is wrong, they both have their uses in different situations.

You sound like a reasonable person and then write something which is irrational.

Humans are sexually dimorphic. Human biology is binary, there is no spectrum of biological sex. And biology just is, like gravity or the speed of light, it's not something created by having a different opinion.

I think its a massive stretch to call her misogynist for deliberately provocative posts.

Can you really think that? People who respect women don't normally tattoo dire threats directed at women onto their bodies. People who don't respect women are misogynists.

AngryAttackKittens

"Takes a special kind of person to sympathize with someone who not only has a death threat tattooed on their person but calls themselves "The Butcher", or pretend to."

She is literally a butcher... that's her job...

Some people just can't seem to keep their promises (about going away)...

The difference between Dolezal and trans people is like... decades of research which proves we're not just making this crap up. Including genetics and neurology, ie things we have no way of faking.

I don't think you're making it up. I believe that some people suffer from a condition that makes their mind reject their sexed body. AFAIK nobody has found a cause or a cure for this condition, and the treatment is sometimes to try to make the body more like the mind thinks it should be.

But you cannot change sex and there is no such thing as a female brain in a male body, because the idea of a female brain is a misogynist lie.

Wow that got to be the biggest load of bollocks ive heard in ages

Naughty women raping men

I mean its an actual thing...laws mainly made and enforced by men, male journalists still outnumbering women and a handful of reports

But yeah its an actual thing (as opposed to a relative rarity)

Its just a really secret thing

Rubbernecking car crashes is no new thing.

yourfriendly

That link you posted was a telephone survey.

I asked for the data and citation that say women are as much of a threat to men as the other way round.

It does amaze me how certain people spout such rubbish.

Show me the women who kill two men a week???

Show me.

Yes, the desperate scrabbling to justify the indefensible. Claiming that women are just as bad as men on the one hand, but you can't go in the men's toilets because men are dangerous.

It's risible.

Datun

Pretty much all rape is self reported - its not like the rapist tells the police on themselves. So why would self reporting via telephone survey be different exactly?

I agree with you datun regarding the women are just as bad comments

Maybe women are incredibly dangerous except while we're in the toilet?

Instead I think the best way forwards is secure gender neutral facilities. Ones with floor to ceiling doors and walls, with a CCTV camera watching the door to see who enters and leaves and perhaps even a panic button (like a fire alarm) as is the case with some of these spaces already.

Let's get this straight. You need fully enclosed cubicles which can't be jimmied open, CCTV and a panic button?

How about, and I know this is a radical thought, so bear with me, brace yourself, how about just keep it as it is using segregation by SEX.

Dear God.

And again, another deeply disturbing demonstration of the dismissal of decades of safeguarding protocols, which have resulted in law.

Floor-to-ceiling enclosed cubicles are dangerous.

friendly you realise the name was a massive klaxon even before all the forced teaming & not accepting a no?

The trans extremists are impossible to separate from the old school MRAs but better funded...

I dont want a male body in the open plan changing room my 9yr old uses. I dont want a male body on the ward when my 70ur old mother is recovering from surgery. I dont want my sister locked in a psych ward with a male body.

Males can use the male facilities or mixed sex ones. If it says women or female STAY OUT.

God, it's tedious, isn't it?

Are you friendly enough to leave single-sex facilities to those of that sex, please, Friendly N? That's what some of the transwomen who have come on here have said they will start to do. I think they are admirable.

It doesn't matter that you think or know that you are no threat to women. I don't suppose my OH or sons are, either. They would still make any woman/girl nervous by walking too close at night, staring at them on a tube, following them into a loo, or using the girls' changing rooms at school or uni. They still don't have the first idea of how a female body feels to its owner, or how we deal with its inner workings. They are still bloody well bigger, and a physical contest would be no fair contest.

forced envelopment

Are they identifying as phagocytes?

Sex is a binary in your opinion - but that isn't the opinion of other people. Many people view it as a spectrum. Neither lens to view sex through is wrong,

No, sex is a binary. Biology isn’t an opinion, it’s fact, built on thousands of years of observation, research and analysis.

No serious scientist views sex as a spectrum (and for the love of god don’t post that Nature Op-Ed, we’ve seen and talked about that approximately twenty thousand times.) they dont. Sex is binary.

A tiny number of people think sex is a binary. Some people think the queen is a lizard. Some people think chemtrails are a thing. Some people believe some really, really weird shit. But what actual scientists, doing actual science know is that sex is binary. Male, female. That’s it.

And yes, the lens of science is correct and the lens of binary/queen being a lizard/chemtrails is wrong.

There’s a problem at the moment with people thinking their ill informed opinions are the equivalent of factually researched arguments. There’s a lot of it about, I’m afraid.

angry

Very good point...

Many swimming pools now have mixed sex changing rooms. Never seen a problem at Windsor swimming pool. Much mor relaxed for families too.

because datun - sex segregation would put women at risk. Specifically intersex CAIS women and trans women who are both male and women.

not to mention just drawing the line at sex seg is ridiculous - there are examples where opportunistic attackers ignore the mystical door sigils power and go into spaces they dont belong in to attack women already. don't you think its kind of silly to just assume we've solved the problem by saying they're sex seg'd?

because I massively disagree we have fixed the problem with sex seg, even if only cis... i mean uhh... 'not trans' people existed. It would still be a bad policy to rely on because anyone who would attack another person doesn't give a heck if they "aren't allowed" in those spaces. They also aren't allowed to rape people, I don't think they care very much about what they're allowed to do or not to do.

Yes rape is self-reported, and then investigated. Which is how we know about the lack of reporting and lack of conviction rates. And yes, I have no doubt at all that there are certain women who are sexually aggressive, and worse.
But nothing on the scale of men. (And it's a little bit silly of you to suggest it.)

Which is why we segregate by sex.

The risk assessment is done on the basis of risk. And the biggest risk is that you are born male.

If not, show me. Show me the evidence that two men a week are killed by women.

That's got to be the easiest thing. Because there is no ambiguity. You can't be a bit dead.

Give me the figures.

Alice

A man pushed his head under my cubicle at a pool in Hertfordshire 20ish years ago. It had only just gone unisex.

Now I use a pool (and gym) with seperate female facilities and pay extra (compared to other local leisure centres) for the ‘privilege’.

I like that Chestertons fence thing that someone mentioned on here datun

Makes a lot of sense to me, especially as i dont really see the problem with sex segregation with the 'honour' system of the past

Lancelottie
I'm pretty friendly, but I won't be treated badly or differently because of things I can't control. If you don't like my opinions and think I'm a jerk? Fair enough. That's on me for the opinion. But punishing me because some people who have the same chromosomes as me are bad people? I will not abide!

I use women's facilities all the time - I don't expose my self, or stare at anyone, or even use facilities which don't have cubicles I can change privately in. 99% of the time you'll likely never even notice I was in there with you. How am I being unfriendly here exactly?

Me: CDC statistics show that men are raped by women almost as much as men rape women.
Datun: Show me the murder rate of women on men!!!!

This is a derailment. The topic at hand is about rape - as apparently sex crime is the biggest reason why having a penis in women's spaces is inherently a danger to women. Please stay on topic! :)

'Gender' segregation does nothing to assist women and girls, even if it's useful to transwomen.

Sex segregation is useful to women and girls. Provably so.