From Country Squire Magazine of all unlikely places

[BoreOfWhabylon]

Really powerful article by transwoman Tarquin Sutherland

countrysquire.co.uk/2018/07/17/welcome-to-the-terf-wars/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

That's a really fair position Quarks and I'm not going to try and move you from that interpretation.

Mine, however, would be more along the lines that this is a prime example of how someone really vulnerable and unhappy, as a last resort after years of trying everything else to find peace, finally took drastic steps to find a way that they could live with themselves.

And that even though that difficult personal choice brought them, in private, greater peace and happiness than they had experiences thus far, the public lack of acceptance, discrimination, misconceptions and outright abuse led this person to hate those that had ever offered this path up as a solution.

But isn't it clear it could so easily have been the solution, were it not for the negative reactions they received? It doesn't seem to me that there are any guarantees that holistic therapy didn't involve transition would have achieved anything at all, and yet there does seem to be evidence in that article alone that the answer for Tarquin could believably have been transition in an accepting society.

Anyway, it's not my place to speculate what could have been, and if Tarquin says it is the transadvocates they now blame for their predicament then I am obliged to accept that as their current worldview. Along with a lot of their other worldviews as they previously accepted here on MN.

*For the longest time it was the transexualism that was their saviour, and the people who didn't accept them in their transexualism were the problem.

Now, apparently, it's transexualism that's all that is evil and the people who don't accept it are the blessed relief.

You'll forgive me for calling that "quite the turnaround"*

But this story (with variation) is quite common amongst detransitioners. It will become more common as chemical/medical/surgical interventions are promoted, as will ensuing exacerbation of mental health issues. Tarquin seems a very troubled person (as well as a very creative and resilient one in other ways) and it is likely that their MH issues preceded transition and have remained after. This is not surprising, or, I believe, uncommon. Are only 'thank the lord I can see whereas before I was blind!' transitioners to be seen as 'real' transitioners and/or supported?

It just seems a remarkable lack of compassion for a trans person struggling with issues related to their experience RatRolyPoly.

I did realise I was being pretty hard-nosed just then actually, but that is because I watched this person leave a poster (frogsoup) shaken and unnerved by their aggressive treatment at the hands of infamousT, and I remember at the time quite how frightened she was.

But I've let that colour my tone.

By all accounts infamousT has a huge amount of strength and resilience, more than most of us could muster I imagine were we faced with what they have been through. I would not dream of taking that away from them in any sense, despite my feelings about their views or my uneasiness over how they place the shifting blame.

But this story (with variation) is quite common amongst detransitioners.

Affirmation is only a one-way street it would seem.

I followed T for a short while on twitter recently. This seems to me to be a person who is deeply troubled due to the results of his transition.

I don't believe you can squarely lay the blame at the door of hcps. A lot of pressure to transition people without adequate screening is put on hcps by organisations such as stone wall and mermaids.

I feel when this has all come to a head and the broken people are looking around for a reason as to why this was allowed to happen they should look to the organisation's who pushed their dogma not to the nhs and it's underfunded mental health service.

I think your colours are now flying in the wind for all to see Rat

Wow.

Of course you do Bumbungo

Rat, I appreciate that there are differing ways to view the same situation. And both sides can have good intentions.

However, isn’t it usually best to find solutions that don’t create additional problems for people.

I found this article by a bisexual autistic woman very thought provoking. In it she describes the every day realities and difficulties of her life and reflects upon how much harder everything would be if she had also added into the mix, surgery and drugs. She says that if she were younger she may have considered transitioning an initially attractive option. And indeed now a days she would be streamlined into it under the ‘affirmation’ model.

My concern is that affirmation gets rid of safeguarding and doesn’t allow health care professionals to do their jobs with due diligence and ultimately isn’t in the best interests of vulnerable people.

www.feministcurrent.com/2017/04/14/autistic-kids-dont-need-mastectomies/

And what drove them to contemplating suicide, in 2012 at any rate, was in fact the discrimination and abuse they faced for being transgender.

experiences thus far, the public lack of acceptance, discrimination, misconceptions and outright abuse led this person to hate those that had ever offered this path up as a solution.

InfamousT is the first comment under the article, with the clarification:

^Once, somone did spit at me. Once. And once, I thought I might get beaten up. That's about it.
There are many other factors in my life, that are pressing on my mind and which led me to the rather unfortunate events of Tuesday last, and actually... my transsexuallism really isn't one of them..^

And goes on to say:

^I am quite happy being me... or, to more accurately put it: I am quite happy with the me I am becoming.
I don't for one second regret in any way taking the path I have^

So there wasn't continual abuse, it was more complicated, and of course given how complicated it is, it wasn't guaranteed to turn out all roses - but it wasn't abuse that caused that, it was other issues.

My concern is that affirmation gets rid of safeguarding and doesn’t allow health care professionals to do their jobs with due diligence and ultimately isn’t in the best interests of vulnerable people.

I know Quarks, I know those are the concerns. I don't think those concerns are unreasonable and, as you say, they are of course well-intentioned.

I wish there was a way to have the discussion in a way that didn't descend into ad hominems and that focused on practical solutions without the need to completely destroy any opposing ideologies in the process.

I wish there was a way to have the discussion in a way that didn't descend into ad hominems and that focused on practical solutions without the need to completely destroy any opposing ideologies in the process

If we accept either/or that dysphoria or dysmorphia are psychological complaints or that there is co-morbidity with other MH issues then the cold and hard reality, I suspect, is that for many there will be no solutions, just as there are not for the many who cross my path who have severe depression, are 'manic depressive' or have extreme anxiety or ADHD or a combination of the above. The biggest danger is in labelling trans as a normal variation or dysphoria/dysmorphia afflictions that can be simply cured by transition.

T's story sounds very traumatic and I feel for them and can relate to the NHS leaving you high and dry. I hope they can find some resources privately.

I don't think you quite have right Rat but would agree with Quark et al, there are often complex MH forces at work which get ignored or glossed over in favour of simply transitioning "it will solve everything".

It doesn't.

I was just going to post the same follow-up comment from Tamsin that disturbinglyorange has already shared.

It demonstrates the perils of the media. The subtext of the article is that transphobia and an inability to cope with being transgender led to the suicide attempt, yet it clearly says that "transexualism" is not one of the reasons. i guess "person with mental health issues in suicide attempt" isn't deemed worthy of headlines.

I hope that Tamsin/Tarquin (however they choose to identify these days) is finding some peace within themselves.

My guess is that other prominent transwomen will find themselves in a similar situation when this particular circus has moved on to whatever the next "oppressed" group of choice is.

"I wish there was a way to have the discussion in a way that didn't descend into ad hominems…"

Have a think about that in relation to your first response on this thread, Rat.

The fact it's been deleted would indicate you have a point Popchyk.

I'll have a word with myself.

RatRolyPoly

the public lack of acceptance, discrimination, misconceptions and outright abuse led this person to hate those that had ever offered this path up as a solution.

But isn't it clear it could so easily have been the solution, were it not for the negative reactions they received?

This is the same old story. The idea that the mental ill health suffered by some transgender people is the result of the rest of society not accepting them. But think about the other groups who are sometimes victimised by the rest of society, because they are female, black, gay, disabled...

Transgender people are currently lauded by the media and centred by all political parties and their followers. Women are being vilified. If anyone should be suffering mental ill health through being classed as second-class citizens and being excluded and sidelined, it's women, not transgender people.

The idea that there are no other reasons why transgender people might be suffering from mental ill health is not helping them. These underlying mental health issues need to be tackled. Eventually the individual may decide that physical transition is the answer, but it should not be assumed that this will be the right solution for everyone or that transition will solve all their problems, and it may create many different problems.

You should not assume that people here have no compassion or sympathy for people who suffer the distress of sex dysphoria. You spend a lot of time here, and I am sure you must realise by now that there is plenty of sympathy for such people, as well as for those young people who are so completely bamboozled by the whole sex/gender mess at the moment that they think they have to transition in order to "be themselves".

Although a good article, it sadly wasn't one that would be easy for the general public to read and access what is going on ... you have to already be in the know to recognise.

But always good to hear more voices raising the utterly reasonable common sense approach to things

It's totally counter intuitive to take someone with complex serious MH issues and add to it very invasive elective cosmetic surgery that removes healthy tissue and probably sexual function too.

Of course it often causes more problems than it solves. What else would you expect?

Rat, Popchyk called you out: you know you are doing a lot of outing and deadnaming and doxxing on this thread, right?

To which you replied: Everything is out there in the public domain...

The deadnames* and plenty of other details of many transwomen are out there in the public domain too in their own words, some of them very prominent transactivists. But if GC feminists quoted any of this publicly available information here you'd be hurling accusations of transphobia and reporting their posts.

Hypocrisy much, Rat?

*I take issue with the idea that a man who identifies as a woman is entitled to demand the world forgets any offences against women or children they may have committed in their previous identity. I don't think anyone should be allowed to change their name or any gender market in such circumstances.

But if GC feminists quoted any of this publicly available information here you'd be hurling accusations of transphobia and reporting their posts.

I think you're mistaking me for somebody else.

Glad to be corrected, Rat and to hear you wouldn't report gender critical posts.

But you haven't dealt with the issue of hypocrisy...

Good article op. 👍
Thanks for sharing.

Another interesting article / interview with T in the same magazine

countrysquire.co.uk/2017/10/28/transinister/

Glad to be corrected, Rat and to hear you wouldn't report gender critical posts

I only report posts that are grossly offensive, knowingly and personally hurt individuals or are bullying. I'm not fussed what sort of feminist writes them.