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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

We are putting our money where our mouths are

106 replies

Stilettosandan0venglove · 14/07/2018 07:53

Fair Play for Women are creating a campaign to inform everyone about women and girls' rights and the GRA.

It’s having an amazing surge of support, and now there is just one more day for it to run.

I'm going to add a few more quid before it closes, because as one donor says:

The future of women's and girls' rights in this country depends on the outcome of this campaign. If any man can just declare he's a woman, we won't be able to maintain single sex spaces in refuges & prisons, or single sex services like rape crisis centres. Our ability to organise independently from men to protect our rights will be threatened. Girls and women won't be able to define our own boundaries, or maintain private female spaces like changing rooms and toilets. This is an emergency for girls and women.

Who here has contributed and what were your reasons?

OP posts:
LangCleg · 15/07/2018 11:17

Oh my lordy, it's there! £20.7k.

Two wonderful souls donated £1,000 and £500 respectively.

I might have a tear in the eye.

Original poster
Stilettosandan0venglove · 15/07/2018 11:18

Bloody amazing! This matters so much, to so many.

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 15/07/2018 11:19

Oh wow that's brilliant Flowers

LangCleg · 15/07/2018 11:21

I'm even more chuffed than I thought I would be!

Angryresister · 15/07/2018 11:26

Fantastic that this much has been raised...power to you all. Looking forward to seeing the results of all the hard work you are doing on behalf of women.

EmpressWeaponisedClitoris · 15/07/2018 11:33

Oh YES!!!! That's incredible. So happy.

Popchyk · 15/07/2018 11:35

Well done.

EmilieDuChatelet · 15/07/2018 11:43

Double the total that they originally set. Wow! Many congratulations to all at FPFW. Looking forward to seeing the results.

garam · 15/07/2018 11:50

putting money where our mouth is = being scammed by demagogues.

TheBiologicalWoman · 15/07/2018 11:54

So pleased it's on its way to 21k now
They smashed it!

SarahAr · 15/07/2018 12:06

FPFW continues its campaign mischaracterising the proposed legal changes.

Its lack of legal knowledge is plain even on points that would work in its favour. Proponents of self-id suggest that all that should be required is a statutory declaration. These involve making a declaration before a commissioner for oaths, not swearing an oath. Only if an affidavit were required would it be necessary to swear an oath. Given FPFW is either unaware what activists are asking for in the way of self-id or unaware of how statutory declarations work, how can you trust its "advice" on this issue?

Having been called out on the rubbish it has spouted that self-id would give men the legal right to enter female spaces, they now use the argument that self-id makes protections unenforceable on the ground. From its fundraiser

When any man can opt into the female sex, while protected by strict privacy rules that hide his transgender status, no one can challenge his right to enter a space lawfully reserved for natal females

The thing is that protections for trans people under the EA are independent from the GRA or whether the trans person has a GRC. And I can think of no situation where it is impossible to tell someone is trans but is lawful to discriminate against them under the exemptions in the EA. If a service provider needs to ask to see a GRC and has good reason to, it can. The restriction on asking for a GRC comes from discrimination law, not privacy law.

Finally, there are no spaces lawfully reserved for natal females. I challenge any GC lawyer to name a space lawfully reserved for natal females backed up by primary and secondary legal sources.

Still perhaps with its £20,000 FPFW can get in a proper lawyer, learn its fears are groundless, apologise to transgender people and their allies, and end its campaign.

Baroquehavoc · 15/07/2018 12:08

So pleased it's on its way to 21k now
They smashed it!

Great news

ToeToToe · 15/07/2018 12:09

"Demagogues"

Grin Hardly. A group of women standing up for women's rights.

ToeToToe · 15/07/2018 12:15

Just bunged them some more. Wink

LangCleg · 15/07/2018 12:17

Women speaking for women. How dangerous. How dreadful. How could it possibly be allowed? Demagogues my arse.

I'm going to donate again now.

SarahAr · 15/07/2018 12:22

Of course in situations where the EA and GA does not operate, it is legal to reserve a space just for natal women. But none of the public debate is concerned about these spaces.

kaitlinktm · 15/07/2018 12:25

I couldn't remember if I'd donated so I donated (again) just in case. Grin

LastTrainEast · 15/07/2018 12:31

To those opposing I'd say that I contributed because this is about getting the truth out.
What people do with the truth is up to them, but working behind the scenes to remove rights from women is no longer going to work if we can get everyone looking this way.

Xiaoxiong · 15/07/2018 12:32

@SarahAr please can you explain to me why the fears of men going through the self-ID process with no intention of transition and gaining access to women's spaces including shelters, rape centres, changing rooms, prisons etc are groundless? At present the onerous process maintains safeguards which as far as I can see will be done away with by self-ID.

Honest request, this stuff keeps me up at night so any comfort you can give me would be great.

Original poster
Stilettosandan0venglove · 15/07/2018 12:37

So many bumps for this thread Smile

OP posts:
LangCleg · 15/07/2018 12:41

I'm quite happy to go yet another time if anyone has any more hyperbolic and misogynistic descriptions of uppity women organising to defend their rights to inspire me. You've got til 6pm!

ApplesinmyPocket · 15/07/2018 12:44

I donated. The message needs to get out there - so many people don't know self-id is being seriously considered,, or don't believe it could ever happen.

Good to see so many donations coming in.

ToeToToe · 15/07/2018 12:49

Yes, I could go again too. We're quite flush at the moment, and it's a good cause. One close to my heart.

Ereshkigal · 15/07/2018 12:52

The thing is that protections for trans people under the EA are independent from the GRA or whether the trans person has a GRC

They are not. It's been admitted by many trans advocates that having a GRC would strengthen a discrimination case. Why do you think it specifically mentions being able to exclude males from rape counsellor jobs "even where they have a GRC". To me this brings it home. They knew what they were potentially going to bring about and the interplay with the GRA and that was their lame attempt to safeguard vulnerable women's rights.

Ereshkigal · 15/07/2018 13:04

Finally, there are no spaces lawfully reserved for natal females. I challenge any GC lawyer to name a space lawfully reserved for natal females backed up by primary and secondary legal sources.

Any space can be lawfully reserved for natal females as long as that action is considered a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim. Arguably women's privacy and dignity are a legitimate aim and excluding all males is proportionate. That view should be heard.

You keep contradicting yourself. Pick an angle and stick to it.