FWR more unpleasant than ever

[Snappity]

The Talk Guidelines have done little to improve things. The majority of threads are about trans matters and very few, if any, positive. Misgendering is increasingly rife. "They" for a trans woman is as bad as "he".

Even the sex of trans women with female birth certificates is not respected.

There is post after post that trans women are not women and that sex is biological and cannot be changed (totally ignoring that many aspects of sex can be changed).

Then increasingly material from elsewhere which is anti-trans is being linked.

While individual comments are fair enough, the sheer volume means that FWR is a thoroughly unpleasant place for the majority of trans people and those of us who have trans family members.

Intersex women are also repeatedly disrespected with frequent posts that women are XX or are those with female reproductive capacity. It is hugely offensive.

I am going to be here less. The harassment - and I think that is what it is - has driven me away. It is a shame because trans and intersex feminists - indeed trans inclusive feminists - should be as welcome here as any other feminists. If MumsNet believes in debate that means ensuring that one side isn't shouted down - and the sheer volume of people saying that trans women are not women and belong in male spaces (because anyone "male" is a risk to women) is shouting down the other side of the debate.

FWR needs to regain a balance.

"So instead of running over hurdles, have ducking under a bar so that height is a disadvantage".

Ducking under a bar.

So instead of running over hurdles, have ducking under a bar so that height is a disadvantage.

Or - we could just have women's sports.

Yes! Let's do that.

Limbo? 🙄

Men don't have a natural advantage because of sports rules or design. Their advantage is purely biological.

It's not feminist to get rid of women's sport, the feminist thing to do is support women's sport and all the amazing women and girls who train so hard.

Can't actually see "The Ducking Under a Bar 100m" being the blue ribband event at any Olympics in my lifetime. Have finally delurked on FWR threads because of this.. How would Hi T and Low T help with Ducking under a Bar by the way?

You honestly think you are going to fill a stadium for the 'ducking under the bar event'?? Someone else take over-I can't type for laughing!!

If it was a bar holding and cocktails, I'd have a go at ducking under

oh do we think this is a transwoman?

Ducking under bars? Surely that's not ultra feminine enough? It's not graceful. We could try tit juggling. Or duelling eyelash curlers?

And we don't need to limit ourselves to girly sports. What about university? I'm thinking of a course in applied cosmetics.

Any other, ahem, sports other than Ducking Under a Bar that you can recommend for women, Snappy?

Please.

Do tell.

God Snappity it’s just impossible to discuss with you. I presume that in a race we should ask people to run as slowly rather than as fast as possible then? Makes sense to me.
From your writing you don’t actually come across as monumentally thick so I reckon you don’t truly believe most of the stuff you write but you feel conflicted because your partner is trans. Such a shame.

Women should be designing and promoting sports where they have a natural advantage over men, or neutral. So instead of running over hurdles, have ducking under a bar so that height is a disadvantage.

If women can't see that sports have been designed to disadvantage women and that the answer is to design sports that eliminate that disadvantage then I despair. I thought this was a feminism section - so design and promote sports which suit women not men.

I am so interested in these ideas. They are fascinating. So, apart from despairing, what have you done to promote these ideas? You are a feminist, right, that's what you keep telling us? A proper feminist, not a nasty GC one. So you'll have formulated some rules for the 'ducking under a bar' event? Started grassroots clubs? Letters to the IOC? Maybe some photos of you limbering up for Ducking (or have you come up with a cool name - because actually, on reflection, maybe 'Women's Ducking' doesn't sound...quite...right?) Surely also a list of other womanly events? The 100m Multitask? The Asking For Directions When Lost-athon?

Obviously you'll have done all that because otherwise it might sound like a fucking ridiculous idea lobbed in randomly just to deflect everyone, again, from whatever the point is.

Here's the thing - if that DID happen (and it's bollocks, of course), the transwomen would all be up in arms that the 'new' women's events were 'transphobic'.

Females tend to be shorter - 'ducking under a bar' competition.
Females tend to have different lung capacity to men - 'sitting-down and having a chat' tennis
Females tend to have less muscle density than men - 'lifting up the washing to the washing-line' lifting competition
Females tend to have more suppleness than men (huh?) - 'wafting dancing around a maypole in a Laura Ashley dress' competition.

So glad we're getting the chance to define new sports.

Though I['m still confused If transwomen are women, surely lots of those transwomen/women will be competing up in the echelons of 'high-t' sports that 'women' are meant to be leaving and redesigning their own sports.

It's so confusing!

(It's not!)

But but but wails I'm 5 foot 9!!! I can't duck under a bar as quickly as the five foot shorties. Its not faaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiir…...

Sorry but this is surreal now.

So women should do things like the beam because they are supple. Snappity says trans women are women. So, by that logic trans women should do the beam. Hmm. What could possibly go wrong with that?

Snappity: when you are in a hole, stop digging.

Olympic limbo! It's almost as if some TRAs have taken the question "how much lower can you go?" as a challenge.

I have to admit to being quite good at embroidery. Do I get a medal?

I'm still left bawling here at the idea that women need to concentrate less on doing the hurdles, cos 'men stuff', and focus on bars that they can 'duck under' instead!

Amongst all the extremely serious stuff here, this is priceless!

And yet, very serious too.

A small medal sociopaths, befitting our smaller sizes. Perhaps it could double up as a compact mirror, after all as girls we always need to check our makeup?

I'm good at sprinting compared to other women. I enjoy it. I enjoy competing against other women. Clearly this is wrong of me. Bloody men deliberately designing a sport like running in a straight line for a short distance in order to oppress me! Down with the patriarchy!

I see now that I should stop with the man sport of running and take up a snappity approved laydee sport like, um, walking in heels with a book on my head?

Maybe we could have a sort of paralympics for non-men.

We could go for:

-Knitting - as approved by Jane Fae.

-Emptying the dishwasher, whilst being helped by a toddler - women probably have far more practice at that. Marks deducted for anything smashed.

-Hanging out washing whilst holding newborn baby. Extra marks for 'correct' hanging with matching pegs.

-Cooking a meal whilst answering the phone, Mumsnetting and keeping a pre-schooler and 1yr old occupied.

All speed tests - bonus marks for wearing immaculate tea dress and unsmudged mascara.

Oooh I got a medal! Fanks. How about Walking And Talking? That seems to be beyond my OH so I'd win that.

Knitting - as approved by Jane Fae.

I've seen this reference before - anyone explain it?

She sat knitting at a debate held at Manchester Uni - a debate with Milo and Julie Bindel.