Is it possible not to agree thatTWAW

[BertrandRussell]

ans not be transphobic? Because I think transwomen are transwomen and deserve all the rights and protections of the law, and should to live their lives peacefully, unharnessed and using any names or pronouns they wish. But I don't think they are actually, literally women. Incidentally, neither does the only transperaon I know well enough who is old enough to ask. If thinking that makes me transphobic is she transphobic too?

You can only exclude on the basis of sex

Men monopolise everything. Women sometimes want to be on their own.

So they can talk about things that affect women only, maybe? - pregnancy, miscarriages, painful periods, it’s quite a long list actually.
A biological male does not
have as much in common with women as you appear to believe?

With regards to the question - I don't know if anyone else has raised this - I haven't much time at the moment to read through, BUT:
Does everyone know about the women AND THEIR CHILDREN who have been doxxed on Twitter because their women's group refused to refer to themselves as CIS?
I guess that means that it is not possible to disagree.

Seriously, daimbars, you’re scraping it now. Gay women are women.
It’s interesting that the only person on the thread to try to drag gay women into it is you.

To be clear - the twitterer posted pics from facebook with names and pics of babies and toddlers, saying that the women were transphobic.

Private groups and activities are not covered by anti-discrimination laws. My crochet group can exclude anyone it wants to on any basis.

Refusing to be known as cis is transphobic??
This is what you’re (very poorly) attempting to defend, daimbars.
Shame on you and your constant presence on threads like this for no other purpose but to run interference and stop posters saying how they feel.

So are transwomen women or not?

I don't think "sometimes" is a good enough answer for some of the TRAs

MsMc - that's disgraceful but not at all surprising.

Well if there was a women's only group to talk about pregnancy, miscarriage and periods it would be completely legitimate to exclude a trans woman.

How likely is it that a woman setting up a private crochet group with her pals is going to be confronted by a trans woman demanding to join? Really?

Private groups and activities are not covered by anti-discrimination laws. My crochet group can exclude anyone it wants to on any basis.

Thank you LangCleg - assume I'm not allowed to join? Quite fancy a bit of crochet.

I'm actually warming to daimbars, they have shown themselves to be a transphobe (TWAW but only sometimes and it's fine to exclude them from some women's spaces), so aren't far off from peaking I suspect.

ADastardlyThing I just represent the general population and the law as it stands now but nice to know you're warning to me. I have a soft spot for a few posters on here as well.

I think the penny will drop eventually too. Daim gets it, but doesn't get it.

I think a lot of us have been at that point.

You can be supportive of trans people and be liberal without having to subscribe to all the mantras.

You just have to understand that there are certain situations where its not really in the best interests of anyone for a trans person to be there. Its just about respecting boundaries and understanding you can't barge into women's spaces demanding to be included. Whether it be a knitting club or a hospital ward. Its a social faux pas if nothing else. Key here is mutual respect and understanding.

Red I've been a feminist all my life and would have been with you all the way if that was the extent of the GC Agenda.

The reasons I cannot support GC feminism are:

• I am repeatedly hounded on here about my sexuality, I've lost count of the amount of times I've been asked if I want lady penis. Funnily enough I've never had this from a TRA, only posters on here

• I do not agree that transgender people promote rape culture. I think that is a dangerous allegation

• As a feminist, I object to an image of a trans women in her swim suit being shared on here with the intention of humiliating her. Trans women have my respect and deserve dignity

• I cannot get on board with the inference that TRAs represent all trans people when in actual fact they represent a tiny minority

• The lack of understanding of the GRA and the Equality Act and the fact they are two entirely bits of legislation irritates me

This is going to alienate any liberal feminist in my opinion I doubt it's just me.

You are seriously asked on here if you want lady penis?

In that case, it's all just lip service to the TWAW believers.

quite sad really when you think about it, I'd hate it if I knew people were just humouring me, one minute staunchly declaring "but they are women" and in the next breath "only sometimes though" :(

Daim you were hostile to GC feminists and their analysis before any of those items listed above occurred.

I think people express doubt about your claims to be a lesbian daim.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar not on FWR - I started a thread in Chat and it got hijacked from the usual suspects on here

I am a lesbian, ask me anything www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3293128-i-am-a-lesbian-ask-me-anything

What legitimate reason would they have for excluding a trans woman? Apart from prejudice?

Maybe they'd like to talk about their night sweats, dry vaginas and osteoporosis? Lesbians would still get those symptoms at menopause so why would they be excluded?

Socialisation and same-sex camaraderie are the legal reasons why men's clubs excluded trans-men - why can't the same work for women's clubs?

You are seriously asked on here if you want lady penis?

Daim posted in support of Lady Penis; just not for them. So is transphobic whilst also having a pop at other lesbians for being transphobic. In fact calling lesbians that don't want lady penis [word removed by MNHQ that rhymes with small blue people]s.

I am repeatedly hounded on here about my sexuality, I've lost count of the amount of times I've been asked if I want lady penis. Funnily enough I've never had this from a TRA, only posters on here

Don't be disingenuous - you've had it on here only to show you examples of the sort of crap lesbians have to put up with in the twittersphere. No-one here has said you're a bigoted Nazi for who you are and aren't attracted to.

Daim i suspect you were asked about lady penis as there have been lots of examples where lesbians are called transphobes for not liking dick. Cotton ceiling etc.

people were spewing bile about gay people being able to marry, adopt, have children etc

Another false comparison

Transpeople are allowed the rights of people.
No-one wants to take their rights away; even their right to believe whatever it is they want to believe

But TWA not W,