Is it possible not to agree thatTWAW

[BertrandRussell]

ans not be transphobic? Because I think transwomen are transwomen and deserve all the rights and protections of the law, and should to live their lives peacefully, unharnessed and using any names or pronouns they wish. But I don't think they are actually, literally women. Incidentally, neither does the only transperaon I know well enough who is old enough to ask. If thinking that makes me transphobic is she transphobic too?

BertrandRussell its came about from a good friend I had a school who was transgender. She told me she just always knew she was a girl inside a boy's body. It's hard to describe a person's essence - she wasn't particularly girly, liked climbing trees and football, but I just knew that she was a girl despite having male anatomy.

It was really clear to me that being transgender was an innate part of her that she had no control over and I haven't forgotten it.

Diam

How will you accept the situation knowing many people will never believe that TWAW?

Did you notice I haven't requested anyone else to to cease blasphemy?

Do you go on any other MN boards? If you have do you see Christians policing the language of others?

Why do you believe people with your philosophical belief have a right to behave differently to people with other philosophical beliefs?

FemWomb I don't ask people change their beliefs. I appreciate that it out of my control.

I am challenging opinions and behaviours because this is a public message forum and that is what it is designed for.

I don't believe in god.
I respect other people's beliefs.

The difference is that the law doesn't force anyone to go along with someone else's religion.

So why should trans be different?
Most of the world doesn't believe TWAW so why is that belief being forced from a tiny minority?

I think they are women born with male anatomy.

Otherwise known as men!

Daim- I can understand that. But what about people who don't operate on an "I just know" basis. Like me, for example. Why should I be considered transphobic, despite not saying or doing anything transphobic because I don't actually agree with the idea of people born in the wrong body? Because my view-that there are people who have a psychological quirk that makes them think they are not the sex that matches their body- is just as valid. And still allows the transperson to live the life they want to live. How do you know you are right?

The difference is that the law doesn't force anyone to go along with someone else's religion.

So why should trans be different?

Yes, why?

What people believe is not really very relevant.

What their bodies do and what is done to them is much more relevant. There is political significance in having a body around which society is organised. In this male oriented society one body type’s needs are met by the other body type.

The subservient body type is groomed from before birth, treated as disposable and its needs are not considered. Medical advances are modelled on the dominant body type.

There'll be something else after self ID - they will go for the Equality Act exemptions, and that won't satisfy them either, because they'll still be men. They will always want more because what they want can never be possible.

Pratchet I am afraid I agree... very afraid....

The continual insatiable unsatisfying demands

I cannot but believe that the "old" approach that Miranda and others speak of, of considerable time spent talking and reflecting on what life would be like "living like a woman" and how people would react to you prepared transpeople better for the realities of life and were more likely to result in a happier trans experience, a person more at ease with who and why they are and more able to integrate into society and to not be constantly shrieking what about me, look at me, its all about me...

The difference is that the law doesn't force anyone to go along with someone else's religion.

Of course it does. The Sunday Trading Act for example means shops are only allowed to open for certain hours - this is dictated by religion.

BertrandRussell I think you sound respectful, I don't consider what you said to be transphobic at all.

I don't think anyone is expecting everyone to believe TWAW - it's about respecting the law which recognises they are.

I think they are women born with male anatomy.

AKA men.

Correct me if I am wrong. I understand it is difficult if not impossible for a society to have a universal objective moral code without the aid of a supernatural element.

If men make rules better, better doesn't mean better for everyone, as shown by your ideology.

I hear your point about Sunday Trading Act, but I suspect there's a hanging onto the Sunday Trading Act to still enbale people who work in retail to have some semblance of a shorter day, somewhere.

I really don't think that's an equivalent to religious dictacts, though it has its origins in it. Shopping rights is not really an equivalent human right/protection in comparison to single-sex spaces though, is it?

'I demand more booze.'

Not on a Sunday Withnail, you know ...the sunday trading act...tut tut.

I dunno Pombear I would quite happily swap the shops being open on Sunday night for the occasional trans woman in the ladies loo.

to be fair, more than one poster used christ as a swear word. from both "sides" (though there is more than two sorts of opinions) many people here do not believe in god/religion.

Christ on a bike, this is my new favourite thread.

Bet FemWomb doesn't tell me off. Wonder why?

I know, I wanted to see the reaction Diam had to the request and it lead on to an interesting conversation for me.

It all goes back to some people not loving women as much as they love themselves, so it all falls apart.

its came about from a good friend I had a school who was transgender. She told me she just always knew she was a girl inside a boy's body. It's hard to describe a person's essence - she wasn't particularly girly, liked climbing trees and football, but I just knew that she was a girl despite having male anatomy.

It was really clear to me that being transgender was an innate part of her that she had no control over and I haven't forgotten it.

I said that almost word for word, minus the trans bit aged 19.

Why was the photo of that woman wearing woman's clothes deleted?

Thats what women see in women's spaces. If people object to a photo how do they expect women to deal with the reality?

oi oi daim!
I down there is anything you would stop at if it had half a chance at driving the women out of the public sphere.

Couple more shopping hours happily traded for 'the occasional transwoman in the toilets'.

Wow.

Given all the evidence people have given here over the months I've been reading, not about the risk of that minority of transwomen, but the additional risk of breaking down female boundaries to not be able to challenge male-bodied people in toilets and spaces because of 'transphobia'.

And given that we're not just talking about transwomen in toilets, but the very definition of 'women' and 'female' as a consequence.

But of course, we're all girls here- we'd love a bit of extra shopping, hell, go for it! Sounds like a good trade!

Not particularly pertinent to the thread but you're clutching at straws trying to say the Sunday Trading Act is indicative of religious oppression.

I am challenging opinions and behaviours because this is a public message forum and that is what it is designed for.

You are challenging nowt. What you are doing is reciting a mantra, of the Genderists, and saying that because someone had feelings, the whole basis of the laws to protect women should be scrapped.

Which is utterly ridiculous. We are the voice of the 82%. The 82% that say NO.