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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Is it possible not to agree thatTWAW

306 replies

BertrandRussell · 12/07/2018 18:57

ans not be transphobic? Because I think transwomen are transwomen and deserve all the rights and protections of the law, and should to live their lives peacefully, unharnessed and using any names or pronouns they wish. But I don't think they are actually, literally women. Incidentally, neither does the only transperaon I know well enough who is old enough to ask. If thinking that makes me transphobic is she transphobic too?

OP posts:
daimbars · 12/07/2018 21:06

Christ get Datun here quick, she's the only one who manages to rein in the transphobia. The rest of you have lost the plot!

LangCleg · 12/07/2018 21:07

I think by now it is obvious that it is a matter of obeying Followers of Genderism or suffering the consequences.

Indeed. Not playing the totalitarian game.

LangCleg · 12/07/2018 21:08

All 82% of us have lost the plot. This is correct. The fountain of truth aka Pink News says so.

Pratchet · 12/07/2018 21:08

GOD

sorry to my fellow feminists

But Christ on a BIKE people need to know what self ID means. And that photo (gone now) was pretty mild compared to others.

Goodnight and thanks to everyone else for staying calm while I ranted like a banshee.

terryleather · 12/07/2018 21:09

I think by now it is obvious that it is a matter of obeying Followers of Genderism or suffering the consequences.
The dominance/submission paradigm has always been about obedience.

Fuck 'Em And Their Law as The Prodigy so eloquently put it...

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 12/07/2018 21:10

they are women born with male anatomy

Whereas, to me, the only indicator of womanhood is having been born with female anatomy. There's literally nothing else to it.

FemWomb · 12/07/2018 21:10

Daim

Can you please stop using a the name of someone, some people view as a God, as an expletive.

You want people to respect your philosophical belief, please respect others philosophical belief in return.

FermatsTheorem · 12/07/2018 21:11

What, by saying that "some women are born with male genitals" is a load of bollocks? Transphobia is stating blindingly obvious scientific truth these days is it? Not surprising a lot of us think you're the one devaluing the term.

Head over to pistonheads, or reddit, or datalounge, or kiwifarms. There's genuine transphobia on there. Refusing to deny biology is not transphobia.

thebewilderness · 12/07/2018 21:11

Ask yourself if there is any place left where women won't be masturbated at or on except at home? And sometimes not even there.

Mandating belief in a particular dogma is possibly the most self destructive thing a government can do. Will they enforce belief and punish non believers or let roving gangs with baseball bats terrorize women into compliance?
People who prefer the rules of misogyny to the rule of law need to get the eff out of government.

Elletorro · 12/07/2018 21:12

Does it really matter what a TW is?

It’s more important what a TW does and does not do.

What rights a TW needs that a W does not. What responsibilities are put on a TW?

What rights a W needs that a TW does not. What responsibilities are put on a W?

Because really we are interested in social dynamics and class analysis.

TWAW is a fairly unedifying exercise in categories/ontology and a MASSIVE distraction

FemWomb · 12/07/2018 21:14

All 82% of us have lost the plot.

No, 10% are loving the opportunity to bully women, 5% think they are being kind and 3% have lost the plot. The 82% are ShockHmmConfused WTF?

daimbars · 12/07/2018 21:16

FemWomb no problem. But if it was only that simple everyone here would accept TWAW and it would all be fine.

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 12/07/2018 21:16

All would be fine... Hmm

FemWomb · 12/07/2018 21:18

I am going to watch you then, now you say you will. I will see if you can manage to respect others in the same way you demand respect, it will be an interesting experiment.

pombear · 12/07/2018 21:21

Daim whilst I can appreciate your concern that Pratchet may have gone on a swimming-pool hunt to take a 'humliating picture' of a transperson in their swimming costume. Somehow, given Pratchet's posting history, that's unlikely, but well done you on trying to witch-hunt and stir up questions about a regular poster.

In fact, I remember that picture very well. If we put it back in its context, Pratchet has been kind in not identifying the poster.

The photo was posted by a trans twitter account in direct conversation with #ManFriday's first activism swim - easily to interpret in the context of the time and the discussion as ''fuck you, here I am in 'women's' swimwear, what you going to do about it'.

Whilst I personally have no issue with males wanting to wear what's coded as 'women's' swimwear, the fact that the original poster of their own image posted directly linking to #ManFriday's action, it was easily interpreted as a challenge and access to female swimming and changing places by a male bodied person.

(And yes, unless that person is 'packing a silicone' that is definitely a male-bodied person in a swimsuit).

daimbars · 12/07/2018 21:22

Of course FemWomb I would never intentionally disrespect anyone. I have heard many posters on FWR blaspheme and I did not realise it was a touchy subject but absolutely no problem to stop if it offends you.

pombear · 12/07/2018 21:26

In conclusion, Daim, I'd chill in the 'transphobia' and 'upskirting' claims against Pratchet

And looking through the following posts, your call on your Almighty to bring back Datun to save yourself from the 'appalling' transphobia - none of them are saying anything different, though some posters may either not be aware/not care about the cosh we're under about what we can and can't say here.

Most of us all here know basic biology. People can express whatever stereotypical gender they want to. People may feel uncomfortable in the sexed body they have.

Most other people have empathy for them when that becomes difficult to navigate in the current world. And most other people will find ways that help them to do so, without trampling on other people's rights and needs.

But whatever they do, whatever they say, sadly for them transwomen will only ever be transwomen.

FemWomb · 12/07/2018 21:27

Diam You understand that you have a right to a philosophical belief as do others.

You believe in souls as do Christians.

Christians don't believe God made a mistake. Christians should love you, how they express that will be different from person to person. Christians believe that they should not lie. Do you understand that there is a clash here? You will never make every Christian believe what you do.

Atheists don't believe in souls. You have a clash here. You will never make an atheist believe what you do.

You, the Christian and the atheist all have a right to your belief, none of the above can force the other to believe what they don't.

daimbars · 12/07/2018 21:31

Of course FemWomb - an awful lot of laws have been made on the basis of belief in God though.

I actually think belief in God and being transgender are quite similar - a certainty in something that can never be proven.

FemWomb · 12/07/2018 21:32

You were always and still are free to blaspheme as much as you like. I was looking to see if you would stop if requested to, and I am now looking to see if you stick to your word in future.

FemWomb · 12/07/2018 21:35

Diam where do you go from here then? You understand you can't make others believe what you do. How will you accept the situation knowing many people will never believe that TWAW?

Original poster
BertrandRussell · 12/07/2018 21:39

“I think they are women born with male anatomy.”

I understand that you think this. Can you explain to me what led you to think it? Why it sounds credible to you?

OP posts:
TerfsUp · 12/07/2018 21:40

Waiting for the racist appropriation
Then intersex
We may have time for infertility before bed

Have we already had the "OMG, I can't stand the hatred and bigotry towards trans here on MN?"

It's not a real thread unless someone posts this at least once.

daimbars · 12/07/2018 21:42

FemWomb personally if something is law I may not agree with it but I respect it - so as the current Gender Recognition Act recognises TWAW I respect that law.

It just so happens that law coincides with my own belief system.

I don't believe God would mind if gay people got married in a church but I respect the law and would not campaign for the Church of England to allow gay marriage in churches.

thebewilderness · 12/07/2018 21:49

daimbars Thu 12-Jul-18 20:21:17

Did you know that carrying this accusation from one thread to another over and over again is a violation of the talk guidelines?

Your beliefs that there are lady brains in men's bodies and lady penis on men's bodies is entirely your business. Badgering women to submit to your beliefs by calling non believers transphobic on this website is really quite inappropriate.