"Gender" Dysphoria Is A Mental Illness.

[TruscumTeen]

I want to start this off by saying that I am transsexual, and that I am in no way intending to offend people - I merely wish to explain why it is extremely important to acknowledge this fact.

For a long time now I have been reading threads from this talk topic. I used to be somewhat of a very politically correct SJW, however I had my eyes opened by these threads (thank you all for that, by the way).

I find it completely and utterly absurd that stating biological facts is now considered "transphobic", and that people actually accept the self-identification of people declaring themselves as trans. I am extremely aware that I am biologically female, and that I always will be. I strongly, strongly disagree with self-identification, and with the idea that transgenderism is not the result of a mental illness.

So, firstly, a definition:
Mental illness = a condition which causes serious disorder in a person's behaviour or thinking.
Now, in the title I put the word "gender" in quotations. This is because transsexuals like myself experience SEX dysphoria - not dysphoria of a social construct.
So, SEX dysphoria causes extreme discomfort and distress. It can lead to other mental illnesses such as eating disorders, depression, anxiety and suicidality. It results in people wanting to mutilate their own bodies. SEX dysphoria literally fits the definition of a mental illness.

Just a quick "rant": We all find it atrocious when people say things like "oh, I'm so OCD"; "you are skinny, so obviously are anorexic", or when people self-diagnose themselves with mental illnesses. So why do people find it acceptable in this case? I see it all the time: "I want short hair, so I'm gender dysphoric"; "I love wearing make up - I must have gender dysphoria". It totally makes a mockery of people who actually have SEX dysphoria, who face a continous struggle against themselves.

Now on to why this fact is important:

If we declasssify SEX dysphoria as a mental illness, we face the inevitability of widespread self-identification. There are so many problems with this (I'll just mention a few):

As many of you will know, there have been documented cases where males self-identify as women and go on to abuse females in supposedly "safe spaces". None of these abusers will have dysphoria, yet are considered "trans" - disagree and you are a bigot.

Males can self-identify as women and threaten lesbians into sleeping with them. This is downright disgusting, and is a real problem.

Declasssifying it will mean removing the treatments (hormones, surgery) from the NHS, having a disastrous, detrimental affect on transsexuals - such as myself -who experience debilitating SEX dysphoria. We cannot afford tens of thousands of pounds in order to alleviate the symptoms of our mental illness. This will lead to a huge increase in transsexual suicides (REAL suicides, not the debunked, skewed current claims), which will be hidden and overlooked due to shouts of a "progressive society" from transactivists and transtrenders.

This is just a relatively brief overview of why acknowledging dysphoria as a mental illness is important. I apologise for the rambling, inarticulate and probably incoherent nature of my post. I am more than happy to answer questions/debate if that is what people wish (though probably tomorrow as I am tired). I just wanted to vocalise my views, as there is a minority of us genuine transsexuals in the "community" who are constantly berated and insulted for stating facts.

Also, to every woman posting in Feminism Chat - I agree with you wholeheartedly and stand with you.

dadjoke Men are not claiming they are biological women. There are some AFAB people whose gender identity and sex don't match, and vice versa. You are conflating sex and gender identity.

Yes, the definiition of medical condition includes mental illness, but not all medical conditions are mental illnesses. I am sure you understand that. To aid your understanding,, I refer you to the NHS guidlines, and I'll quote directly:

[https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/ NHS Guidelines]

"This mismatch between sex and gender identity can lead to distressing and uncomfortable feelings that are called gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition, for which treatment is sometimes appropriate. It's not a mental illness."

You are more than welcome to argue with experts in the field of medicine, and assume that there is a massive conspiracy by the super-powerful trans lobby to corrupt the WHO, NHS, APA and other bodies, but that seems a little unlikley, certainly less likely than the other option. So which is it, massive world-wide conspiracy, or a reevalution?

As for the kind of medical condition it is:

"Gender dysphoria is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there's a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity. It's sometimes known as gender incongruence."

As for referring to people as fetishists, that's straight from the anti-gay lobby's playbook. The playbook works like this. First, the behaviour is considered sinful, disgusting or immoral. Then, the condition is considered pathological, an illness, as a fig leaf to mask what is basically disgust. Finally, there is an acceptance that the person's identity or behaviour is not pathological.

You are more than welcome to argue with experts in the field of medicine, and assume that there is a massive conspiracy by the super-powerful trans lobby to corrupt the WHO, NHS, APA and other bodies, but that seems a little unlikley, certainly less likely than the other option. So which is it, massive world-wide conspiracy, or a reevalution?

Nice argument from authority DadJoke. It's not a "conspiracy theory" it's clearly a framing of a psychological condition heavily influenced by aggressive lobbying by the transgender health and political community who desperately want to avoid the perceived stigma of mental illness. HTH.

truscum a surgical procedure is not "mutilation" and your use of that word is laden with disgust. Gender reassignment surgery has the best prognosis for gender dysphoria. I am not attributing views to you that you don't possess, merely that when you hold a belief and it matches the belief of people you strongly oppose, it's worth a reevaluation.

yetanotherspartacus I pointed you at the NHS guidelines; you are welcome to look at the WHO guidelines, too. If you won't accept those, then there is not much I can say to persuade you.

If you want to address the bathroom issue, which facility do you think [[https://a.wattpad.com/cover/80065492-352-k916918.jpg this person]] should use? What about this person? Do you want anyone whose gender expression doesn't match the norm to provide a chromsome test? Do you think it's OK to challenge anyone in a bathroom to prove what their chromosomes as? To make it fair, should everyone carry a biological sex card and be checked at the door?

None of this is to say that the sex-based protections enshrined in law aren't important, but it's not a simple issue.

Do homosexuals want to cut parts of their body off? No? Do they require treatment? No? That's because homosexuality is not, and never was, a mental illness. As I said, no comparison. The T is totally different from the LGB.

This second rate sophistry is what passes for an argument from people like DadJoke. That is all he has.

As a secondary school teacher you’ve just reinforced my view that if we had the courage to shut up, step back and actually listen to and amplify the views of our young people we’d get a much more nuanced, intelligent and genuinely progressive dialogue than the ones that come from current mainstream politics.

And you write beautifully.

Haha filling the whole bingo card out here! Buck Angel, which bathroom? Gold.

Thank you for posting TruscumTeen, you make such important points so clearly.

relevent links:
www.theguardian.com/society/2018/may/04/standing-up-for-transsexual-rights

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3233705-Really-like-this-video-from-a-trans-woman-with-very-good-insight

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3209903-to-say-not-in-my-name

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3222478-Transexual-people-are-rejecting-transgender

mirandayardley.com/en/

www.youtube.com/c/roseofdawn

Disclaimer: I haven't looked at the links so it probably isn't Buck, but it's such a tiresomely predictable talking point.

"Gender dysphoria is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there's a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity. It's sometimes known as gender incongruence

Sounds very much like a mental illness to me. Having said that, gender identity is socially constructed ...

DadJoke

Please consider the context of your comments. You are addressing a teenager on a parenting website.

Ershkigal So, The super-powerful trans lobby has corrupted the entire medical establishment. That's certainly one of the possibilties.

When presenting an argument, for example about climate change, it's perfectly reasonable to say "the scientific consensus is that climate change is real" and point at the weight of numbers, cite national and international bodies on the subject, as evidence.

The same applies to this issue. It's possible that the WHO, APA, NHS and most other bodies are wrong, but this possibility (super-powerful transctivists have corrupted them) is less likely, just as "global warming alarmists are doing it for the grant money" seems unlikely.

However, in this echo chamber, it's quite difficult to get people to reconsider their positions.

DadJoke We obviously disagree with quite a few things, especially seeing as I view "gender identity" as socially constructed whereas you appear not to. In my view, gender identity is simply a group of sex-based stereotypes. I don't have a "gender identity"; neither do most people I know. Also: "gender reassignment has the best prognosis for gender dysphoria" - yes, I know. That's why I'm seeking to undergo future hormones and surgeries...

Thank you Verbena and R0wan

I agree Spartacus.

DadJoke
Its a public forum, many posters have thanked the OP for posting and sharing their perpectives.

Its a bit patronising (and factually innacurate) to suggest that posters here do not read, speak to or know people beyond here.

R0wantrees I want to treat TruScumTeen with the respect she truly deserves for putting her beliefs forward so cogently, rather than patronise her. She mentioned that she is transsexual, which gives context - other than that, she's stated a political and scientific argument which desserves to be addressed as such.

Ereshkigal "filling out a bingo card" allows you to avoid the argument. Which bathroom do you think those individuals should go to?

Ereshkigal "filling out a bingo card" allows you to avoid the argument. Which bathroom do you think those individuals should go to?

I think there should be a third unisex space, for all the people who don't mind sharing with the opposite sex, like you, I'm sure. Happy for any female person to share the women's loos, but personally I would expect to be challenged occasionally if I passed that well as a man. Male people can also choose between the third space and the men's. The solution to it all isn't "let all men into the ladies and silence women".

But this is a bit of a derail isn't it?

DadJoke

I agree that Tru does deserve respect, as do all posters. Acknowledging the personal details that a poster chooses to share is significant throughout the board. This may be age but it could also be a huge number of other important relevent factors.

Civil discussion enables nuance and supports respect as opposed to a particular 'style' of debate.

R0wantrees Its a bit patronising (and factually innacurate) to suggest that posters here do not read, speak to or know people beyond here.

If I had said, that, then yes it would be patronising. I didn't.

Erishkigal But this is a bit of a derail isn't it?

Yes, it is. Sorry, TruScumTeen

Also: "gender reassignment has the best prognosis for gender dysphoria" - yes, I know. That's why I'm seeking to undergo future hormones and surgeries...

Sorry if this is a drift, but it occurs to me that unless body/sex dysphoria (or dysmorphia) is recognised as an illness in the fullest sense of the word, instead of some freak mistake or misbirth or something, that hormones and surgeries will likely remain the best, or at least the most popular, solutions, even though so many transexuals describe these treatments as inadequate at best. Other avenues will not be adequately explored or explored at all and indeed the political correctness that governs the medical fraternity now also stymies this.

@TruscumTeen thank you for posting. When I was a teenager a few years before your age, I had gender dysphoria. I only put my finger on it when I heard that term last year.
I went to an all girls school and hated the way I looked. I was so ashamed I used to tape my breasts down to make them look flat and appear less like a woman, I never wore makeup. My dad wouldn’t allow me to cut my hair, my school forced us to wear skirts but I wanted to look like a man as much as possible. If someone had said ‘you can be a man if you so wish’ I’d have agreed to it. I think it’s so dangerous the attitude being taken now. Someone could have told me that I’d be happier just being a man instead of helping me with the deep ingrained mental struggle I was going through about my body.

Now as an adult, I am very happily married and really enjoy the way my body is which is the body I was born with. I celebrate all that comes with my body and I want society to appreciate what it can do too, I don’t want to feel written off because of my sex. No one should feel like that.

I’m very disappointed the way things seem to be going. I am very supportive of trans people being able to integrate freely into society but not for anyone to take over current single sex services and hijack them for their own desires.

It feels as though women are an afterthought yet again.

Thanks R0wan

It's fine DadJoke - I like seeing and discussing people's differing viewpoints, even if I disagree. Thank you for being respectful

Mental illness is not situated within the individual. It is situated within the societal and cultural and socioeconomic context within which the individual lives their life.

Mental illness is defined as the individual not performing within the accepted norms of the social context, or perceiving themselves as not performing within norms.

Are Thai ladyboys mentally ill? Or even medically ill?

No, because those individuals are living within a societal context which does not define mental illness in the same way as e.g. the culture we have here in the UK.

Check out the power threat and meaning framework from the British Psychological Society.

R0wantrees Its a bit patronising (and factually innacurate) to suggest that posters here do not read, speak to or know people beyond here.

If I had said, that, then yes it would be patronising. I didn't.

DadJoke you commented previously:
However, in this echo chamber, it's quite difficult to get people to reconsider their positions

Yes Spartacus, I agree. If there was a medicine I could take to stop feeling the way I do, I would take it. I feel like there are other options out there which just have not yet been found.

persona Thank you for your personal account. I'm sorry you experienced dysphoria/dysmorphia, but I'm glad that you are happier now And yes, I agree. Sex-segregated spaces should stay that way. I'd be perfectly happy with a third, gender neutral facility - but amongst my "community" the idea isn't popular.

Many here are aware of the abuse, bullying & attempts to silence the #TSraincrew on Twitter.