"Gender" Dysphoria Is A Mental Illness.

[TruscumTeen]

I want to start this off by saying that I am transsexual, and that I am in no way intending to offend people - I merely wish to explain why it is extremely important to acknowledge this fact.

For a long time now I have been reading threads from this talk topic. I used to be somewhat of a very politically correct SJW, however I had my eyes opened by these threads (thank you all for that, by the way).

I find it completely and utterly absurd that stating biological facts is now considered "transphobic", and that people actually accept the self-identification of people declaring themselves as trans. I am extremely aware that I am biologically female, and that I always will be. I strongly, strongly disagree with self-identification, and with the idea that transgenderism is not the result of a mental illness.

So, firstly, a definition:
Mental illness = a condition which causes serious disorder in a person's behaviour or thinking.
Now, in the title I put the word "gender" in quotations. This is because transsexuals like myself experience SEX dysphoria - not dysphoria of a social construct.
So, SEX dysphoria causes extreme discomfort and distress. It can lead to other mental illnesses such as eating disorders, depression, anxiety and suicidality. It results in people wanting to mutilate their own bodies. SEX dysphoria literally fits the definition of a mental illness.

Just a quick "rant": We all find it atrocious when people say things like "oh, I'm so OCD"; "you are skinny, so obviously are anorexic", or when people self-diagnose themselves with mental illnesses. So why do people find it acceptable in this case? I see it all the time: "I want short hair, so I'm gender dysphoric"; "I love wearing make up - I must have gender dysphoria". It totally makes a mockery of people who actually have SEX dysphoria, who face a continous struggle against themselves.

Now on to why this fact is important:

If we declasssify SEX dysphoria as a mental illness, we face the inevitability of widespread self-identification. There are so many problems with this (I'll just mention a few):

As many of you will know, there have been documented cases where males self-identify as women and go on to abuse females in supposedly "safe spaces". None of these abusers will have dysphoria, yet are considered "trans" - disagree and you are a bigot.

Males can self-identify as women and threaten lesbians into sleeping with them. This is downright disgusting, and is a real problem.

Declasssifying it will mean removing the treatments (hormones, surgery) from the NHS, having a disastrous, detrimental affect on transsexuals - such as myself -who experience debilitating SEX dysphoria. We cannot afford tens of thousands of pounds in order to alleviate the symptoms of our mental illness. This will lead to a huge increase in transsexual suicides (REAL suicides, not the debunked, skewed current claims), which will be hidden and overlooked due to shouts of a "progressive society" from transactivists and transtrenders.

This is just a relatively brief overview of why acknowledging dysphoria as a mental illness is important. I apologise for the rambling, inarticulate and probably incoherent nature of my post. I am more than happy to answer questions/debate if that is what people wish (though probably tomorrow as I am tired). I just wanted to vocalise my views, as there is a minority of us genuine transsexuals in the "community" who are constantly berated and insulted for stating facts.

Also, to every woman posting in Feminism Chat - I agree with you wholeheartedly and stand with you.

It is worth setting out how the NHS presently sees gender dysphoria. www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

What causes gender dysphoria?
Gender development is complex and there are many possible variations that cause a mismatch between a person’s biological sex and their gender identity, making the exact cause of gender dysphoria unclear.

Occasionally, the hormones that trigger the development of biological sex may not work properly on the brain, reproductive organs and genitals, causing differences between them. This may be caused by:

additional hormones in the mother’s system – possibly as a result of taking medication
the foetus’ insensitivity to the hormones, known as androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS) – when this happens, gender dysphoria may be caused by hormones not working properly in the womb
Gender dysphoria may also be the result of other rare conditions, such as:

congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) – where a high level of male hormones are produced in a female foetus. This causes the genitals to become more male in appearance and, in some cases, the baby may be thought to be biologically male when she is born.
intersex conditions – which cause babies to be born with the genitalia of both sexes (or ambiguous genitalia). Parents are recommended to wait until the child can choose their own gender identity before any surgery is carried out.

I know some people dislike the comparison but, in my view, it is impossible to read that page and not conclude that the NHS sees the cause of gender dysphoria as being some sort of intersex condition. The NHS absolutely does not list it as a mental illness any longer.

& here is Rose of Dawn's most recent video,

The Truth About Truscum

'The phrase 'truscum' is often used against transsexuals who disagree with the gender radical agenda. But what does it actually mean? I dispel some of the strange and slanderous accusations levelled at truscum such as myself.'

www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=50&v=UCIQSEGJ66A

R0wantrees
However, in this echo chamber, it's quite difficult to get people to reconsider their positions

Ah, right, I can see why you might infer that is patronising. I'm suggesting that mumsnet feminism is currently a gender critical echo chamber, not that posters don't look elsewhere for information.

TT
we are repulsed by our secondary sex characteristics

Surely it's more than this though? If it were just that, wouldn't TS just want their genitals removed? It seems that TS actively want the genitals of the other sex, so surely it's more complicated?

DadJoke,
thank you for your comment.

You should also be aware that many posters here are very reflective and that this is ongoing.

There isn't a 'hive mind' on FWR and as pretty much all threads will show, a range of opinions are read and engaged with (by most posters)

see current thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301684-Are-we-the-baddies

I'd also suggest, Dad, that before getting too, let's say "robust", in your criticism of the OP you remember that she's 16 and this is a forum full of mums. May not go so well for you, that.

Floor Yes, it is - my bad. I just thought my post was going on a bit. I am repulsed by my female biological organs, and experience this constant feeling of having an overwhelming need for a biologically male body. I know this isn't possible, however in order to alleviate what is a debilitating condition/illness, I am seeking hormones/surgery for the future to make my body better resemble that of a biological male. I can't really accurately articulate how it feels, because I find it to be quite indescribable.

For people new to the FWR board it may be helpful to read the thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Also current threads which identify many of the concerms of Mumsnet members (there are much wider and important issues than often appreciated) :
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3301266-Safeguarding-girls-and-protecting-women-post-Jimmy-Saville-metoo

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3297067-Mumsnet-moderation-response-to-yesterdays-feedback

Surely it's more than this though? If it were just that, wouldn't TS just want their genitals removed? It seems that TS actively want the genitals of the other sex, so surely it's more complicated?

It's way more complicated than that, particularly for trans men. Phalloplasty is a tough operation.

Snappity Have you watched Rose of Dawn's video (linked above)? I hope so.

You might find it interesting to read up on the history of medicine, DadJoke.

You say: So, The super-powerful trans lobby has corrupted the entire medical establishment.

Yes, that appears to be at least partly true. Other pressure groups in the past have persuaded the medical establishment that certain treatments or diagnostic criteria were the way to go, only for it to be later revealed that they were not only wrong but actually dangerous.

Look up lobotomy. Look up eugenics. Educate yourself.

Truscum Teen this is absolutely NONE of my business but I do hope that you will see hormones and surgery as the last rather than the first resort.

Snappity Have you watched Rose of Dawn's video (linked above)? I hope so.

I disagree with some of her views on labels but I agree with her core points. Do you accept that she is a woman?

Men are not claiming they are biological women.

Yes they are. I think you're behind the times. And to the women they are speaking to, it sounds exactly like a mental illness. (As distinct from the OP, who has gender dysphoria whether or not you think that is, or isn't, a mental illness).

The NHS have been taking their advice from GIRES and Mermaids. As have the police, the NSPCC, and the government. It's not a conspiracy theory, it's well documented. And not a secret.

This mismatch between sex and gender identity can lead to distressing and uncomfortable feelings that are called gender dysphoria

It's the words 'gender identity' that cause a lot of the trouble. Because, so far, no one can define gender, without resorting to the understood explanation of society's expectations of sex role stereotypes.

I still haven't heard an alternative explanation of gender, that has any kind of credible consensus.

As for referring to people as fetishists, that's straight from the anti-gay lobby's playbook

Yeah, the relentless referencing of homophobia has not, and never will, make the slightest bit of sense.

You might as well say I kicked the dog once, are you saying it's the same thing!?

Again, you seem to be out of touch. Male cross dressing fetish is included under the trans umbrella. You might want to take a look at the glossary of terms on Stonewalls website.

TruscumTeen

I don't think there is a woman here whose sympathy you don't have. Your post is all the more extraordinary, given that you largely agree with the feminist position.

Snappity Its good to know you've watched it.

TT
Thank you. May I ask, do you, or TS generally, as opposed to TG people, also feel the need to act/behave in a way that is typically ascribed to the opposite biological sex? (in other words do you also have transgendered social behaviour?).

I would like to fully understand the differences between genital dysphoria and TG behaviour. This is because I don't understand why wanting to behave like a "typical man", for instance, would be in any way linked to a mental condition that makes you hate your genitals/want the other sex genitals.

Do you think it is possible to be TS without being TG?
Why are so many TG people happy with their genitals?
If TG and TS were on a venn diagram what would it look like?

Prawnofthepatriachy you are discussing the incorrect medicalisation of conditions, not the depathologising of them! It's the exact opposite of what's happening here.

The super-powerful trans lobby has corrupted the entire medical establishment.

This is a straightforward conspiracy theory, and comparing evidence-based treatment for gender dysphoria to eugenics and lobomoties is at the very least disrepecful to the OP.

This is a straightforward conspiracy theory

Can I remind you of my response earlier please?

You have shared that you're new to the board so perhaps haven't come across this discussion thread. It is nuanced:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3241837-Why-has-the-trans-lobby-been-so-successful

TruscumTeen, you'll notice that when women speak, there is always a certain type of man who immediately wants to correct you when you talk about your own experience. Because a woman's experience isn't actually a valid woman's experience until a man has told us that it is wrong.

It is designed to try to stop you from speaking up of course.

Also as you are 16 years old there again is a certain type of man who may see you talking about your experience as an opportunity for coercion. Please report any private messages that you receive. MNHQ will get rid of the offenders.

Spartacus Definitely. I have years of therapy/counselling ahead of me. I would never dive in to something irreversible.

Thank you Datun. I find the gender-critical feminist position to be very logical and respectful, trying to make progress in a society obsessed with stereotypes and labels.

Floor Apologies if this is a bit long:
I, personally, just act as me. I don't think there's one way for a man to behave, and societal expectations don't bear any relavance to my condition - as it's in my head and about my body, not about how I'm "expected" to behave.

I think "gender", in itself, is just a group of stereotypes. Most people who identify as transgender use reasons such as "I didn't like pink" to justify their self-identification. A lot of young transgender people don't want any medical intervention, because for them it isn't about their body - it's about what they like to wear and do (and as you asked, about their "expectations"). Search "how I knew I was trans" on YouTube, and I can guarantee you every single one will mention a load of stereotypes.

Transsexuals get thrown in with this new generation of transgender people (who, usually, deny the existence of biological sex and insist that there are more than 70 genders).

On a Venn Diagram? This may sound strange but I'd have the crossover middle section labelled "being different". Transsexuals are different due to an involuntary medical state; most people who identify themselves as transgender do so to be different. At my school there were 6 "transgender" kids in a school of 550 or single. All of these kids were 14 or below, and the only thing they changed was their hair. They would constantly mention their "identities", and liked receiving comments.

Of course, this isn't true for all people who use the label "transgender" (some even prefer to think TG and TS are synonymous), but it is rife in the younger generation.

Popchyk Yes, I've noticed. And of course, I will do.

Sorry Floor, "or single" = "or so"

DadJoke, may I remind you that it was you who said The super-powerful trans lobby has corrupted the entire medical establishment.

My reply was that it was at least partly true, because it is. Mermaids and GIRES are hugely influential. Mermaids push for medical transition just as leading scientists used to push for eugenics. That you can't see the parallels says more about your agenda than my argument.

I’ve watched all of Rose of Dawn’s videos and think they are a valuable addition to the public conversation.

Truscumteen - thank you for sharing your personal story with us. I think the GC feminist position often aligns with the Transsexual position (I realise that word is falling out of use but I think it’s a useful distinction and one both you and Rose of Dawn have self described as). I wish you all the best with your future health and hope you will continue to add your unique voice to our discussions.

Well said Datun.