Misogynistic bros part 1 zillion: Stephen Fry

[Ereshkigal]

Why are these men so contemptuous about lesbians' and women's rights? And what the fuck do they imagine it has to do with them?

Hmm yes, I can see that Joan. I think that is true. But there is a lot of freely expressed misogyny amongst gay men, the worst stuff I’ve heard about women’s “disgusting” bodies has been from gay men in gay bars and clubs.

The bit that gives me the rage is the constant accusation that certain feminists (the ones who aren't nice) aren't inclusive. WTF? Who decided they should be? If you have one issue, why should you have to dilute support by including every bugger who wants to tag along?

I'd vote for the Greens if they stuck with 'the environment'. But no, they have to prove how woke they are by dragging in anything else they can think of.

The bit that gives me the rage is the constant accusation that certain feminists (the ones who aren't nice) aren't inclusive.

Yes, I am getting a bit tired of hearing the word 'inclusive'? Why does everything have to be inclusive?

SirVix

But there is a lot of freely expressed misogyny amongst gay men

I think this is typical male bonding via attacking women as the other. Gay men are just as likely to be misogynist as any other men, it's the way men are socialised.

In terms of Stephen Fry on QI though, it's a gay man using his het male audience's misogyny and homophobia to bond with them. Fry is literally all about the men, he probably doesn't norice the women in the audience, we are less than irrelevant to him.

I agree Joan and SirVix...lots of misogyny amongst gay men IME.

I always think it's also a power thing...what every oppressed group since the dawn of time has done; which is, to find a group that are even more oppressed than I; then gain status - identify with the oppressor by discriminating even further against a lower group.

So the hierarchy is:
Straight white men
Straight other ethnicities men
Non-straight men.
Women (of any shape or creed......unless you were formerly a man- in which case, I can identify with.......^)

In Stephen F's case, it's quite straightforward, I reckon.
He is/was marginalised by being homosexual but has gained power by virtue of his supposed intellect and by non-apologetic discrimination against women.

I enjoy his programmes and his intellectual arguments but I really really dislike his need to co-opt power by condescending.

"Why does everything have to be inclusive?"

Agree, but one thing I would expect, is I would expect LGBT pride to be inclusive of female attracted homosexual people (aka lesbians).

Agree, but one thing I would expect, is I would expect LGBT pride to be inclusive of female attracted homosexual people (aka lesbians).

Yes, definitely!

I guess the problem with inclusivity is that eventually you will start getting groups within your group which clash, which is what is happening in LGBT right now?

Melanippe

He has lots of his own demons, which he chooses to process by commenting on other people. It's not fair, the power he has. And he's not as clever as others think he is. There's this sort of hero-worship of him as a posho that is really regressive

Inclusive feminism is feminism watered down until there isn't a single molecule of feminism present. Perhaps they should call it homeopathic feminism.

Homeopathic feminism!! 🤣🤣

Homeopathic feminism “It might look just like the patriarchy to you, but actually it contains the molecule memory of an Andrea Dworkin book we briefly held near it once, therefore it’s feminist!”

OMG homeopathic feminism! 😂

How cowardly to delete the tweet and not say anything to replace it.

Homeopathic feminism

Thanks Daim, not like you to be so helpful here.... waits for MN to find some spurious excuse to delete the tweet

I wonder if the deletion was due to someone someone pointing out that the continuation of Fry’s train of thought is that he (and other gay men) should enjoy interacting with female sexual organs when they are attached to transmen?

Because he has been incredibly outspoken re: his opinions on how yukky vaginas are, so it would be a very difficult circle to square, in his mind.

Yes. Unlike OJ he is intelligent enough to see the connection.

As a very high profile gay man he would have done much better to just stay quiet on the whole thing, regardless of his views, just like Sandi Toksvig, Sue Perkins and Claire Balding are doing. I’m sure those women have opinions on this topic, and I wouldn’t like to guess where they lie, but they aren’t voicing them.

I’ve thought about tweeting sportswomen on this issue - but I don’t want to put them on the spot and have transborg and OJ descend on them - i just can’t do it to them. I met Judy Murray recently and was very tempted to bring it up/ especially as she faced a huge amount of sexism in her role in sport and from the media

Transplants

Oh, I agree, but his National treasure shell is very much starting to crack.

recent thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3298016-John-Bercows-rant-about-Gender-Critical-women

Oops pressed too soon.

#ManFriday Churchillian response to John Bercow:

"I’ve posted a thread in chat if anyone wants to share their postcards out in the wilds."

thread: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3299190-Send-a-postcard-to-John-Bercow

OP YesItsADebate wrote:
Speaker of the House of Commons, pompous bully John Bercow is in Pink News quoting Churchill and slating women for talking about their own rights. See: thread and Prick News. The #ManFriday lot + friends are sending Mr Bercow postcards with apposite Churchill quotes. Do join in if you fancy it. His address is:

John Bercow
Speakers Office
House of Commons
SW1A 0AA
U.K. (for you overseas lot. You know you want to!)

I posted mine earlier.

Here are some quotes: BBC America list

Unlike OJ he is intelligent enough to see the connection.

I'd say that he probably feels the urge to be intellectually consistent. OJ has recognised that intellectual consistency is not necessary in the current climate. All you need to do is grab the moral high ground and then you can say whatever you like, no matter how muddled it is. Be seen to be moral, get the followers, then get the mantras going on social media to denounce the non-moral.

Stephen Fry thinks women don’t really like sex but accept it as athe price of a relationship and it’s THE MEN that he feels sorry for in this dynamic??

I feel sure that Stephen Fry has read Orwell's Ninety Eighty Four & Animal Farm.

Inclusive generally just means ‘about men’, I’m sure most intelligent women have grasped that now.