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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Misogynistic bros part 1 zillion: Stephen Fry

130 replies

Ereshkigal · 08/07/2018 17:58

Why are these men so contemptuous about lesbians' and women's rights? And what the fuck do they imagine it has to do with them?

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SardinesAreYum · 08/07/2018 19:54

The protest is on the BBC.

They include some comments from get the l out at the end which is progress I think.

here

Not anti trans - pro lesbian. Lesbians are female homosexuals. They don't want to suck cock. How is this hate speech.

misscockerspaniel · 08/07/2018 20:04

Well, Stephen Fry might not have a c*nt but he certainly is one.

BeyondRaggydoll · 08/07/2018 20:11

Tells (dammit, I can't acronymise your name!), which definition of "demented" is that using? Wink

Ereshkigal · 08/07/2018 21:23

Pride use the word "love" like Orwell does in 1984 in that statement. These people really don't grasp what they're doing, the silly enabling fuckers.

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QuarksandLeptons · 08/07/2018 21:37

Yes, Stephen Fry is quite the misogynist. He doesn’t think much of women but claims to know all about how we feel and think...

From 2010 www.theguardian.com/media/2010/oct/31/stephen-fry-sex-women-relationships-attitude

“Broadcaster and writer Stephen Fry has tried to establish himself as an unlikely authority on female sexuality, claiming that straight women only go to bed with men "because sex is the price they are willing to pay for a relationship".

In uncharacteristically extreme comments, the openly gay Twitter champion said he believed most straight men felt that "they disgust women" as they "find it difficult to believe that women are as interested in sex as they are".

"For good reason," he declares in a candid interview in the November issue of Attitude magazine. "If women liked sex as much as men, there would be straight cruising areas in the way there are gay cruising areas. Women would go and hang around in churchyards thinking: 'God, I've got to get my fucking rocks off', or they'd go to Hampstead Heath and meet strangers to shag behind a bush. It doesn't happen. Why? Because the only women you can have sex with like that wish to be paid for it."

Fry, 53, continues: "I feel sorry for straight men. The only reason women will have sex with them is that sex is the price they are willing to pay for a relationship with a man, which is what they want," he said. "Of course, a lot of women will deny this and say, 'Oh no, but I love sex, I love it!' But do they go around having it the way that gay men do?"

smithsinarazz · 08/07/2018 21:46

H'm. I don't exactly hold Fry in such opprobrium as some of you. It sounds like he thought a bit but not enough. After all, the mainstream view - the one that won't get you threatened - is TWAW.

BiologyIsReal · 08/07/2018 21:47

A few years ago he was on a chat show.Can't remember whose, but I remember the "joke" he told about being gay. He said that after the experience of being born he decided "there was no way I was going back up there again".

That is his attitude to women, writ large.

Ereshkigal · 08/07/2018 21:58

He really needs to shut up about women and women's rights.

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FrenchDucksSayCoinCoin · 08/07/2018 22:07

Am I really off the mark? Sorry for the essay, but some things fell into place when I read that tweet. Actually, I rescind that apology. I’m allowed to be a person with an opinion, despite having been conditioned otherwise.

I have been getting so cross about this. I seem to be cross a lot lately, I feel that I’m seeing sexism everywhere, and it’s driving me crazy. For some reason, though, this whole trans debate is getting a lot of the focus of my anger. I’m angry with the terms used on both sides, angry at the lack of tolerance I’m seeing, just angry in more directions than I can handle.

I used to have an eating disorder. I know it’s not the same thing, but I have some insight into feeling strongly that my body is all wrong, some insight into having a burning determination to change it and make it comply with my idea of what it should be instead. I hated my body, but at least I never felt that is was literally comprised of the wrong parts. I cannot begin to imagine the pain of that.

So for that reason, I have a lot of sympathy with trans people. I’m grateful not to be trans. I don’t mind the term cis, though I know a lot of people hate it and are offended by it, but I don’t mind it because I don’t want to be termed as non-trans, in the same way I don’t want to be called non-male. I’m uncomfortable with non-white for the same reason.

So, I felt, largely, that we, society, need to show a bit more tolerance towards those who are trans.

Except, then there are these issues with toilets and other single sex spaces and sport...and I don’t know what to do about those things so I think perhaps I shouldn’t be allowed an opinion at all.

So I think perhaps my way of settling this in my head is that I’m okay with post-op transsexuals, but not pre-op. Except that means the exact same person apart from the timing, so that can’t be right, and my opinion, again, is null and void.

Then this happens. Lesbians being hounded for going to pride and saying “I’m a lesbian, and I do not want to have a penis in my vagina”. I understand that. I don’t want a naked penis anywhere near me. Regardless of to whom that penis is attached, I just don’t. I don’t feel like it. I don’t have to have sex with anyone, ever, if I’m not in the mood to do so, and I do not want people, any people, to make me feel badly about that.

I work in an office with mostly men. If any of them, tomorrow, came out as trans and needed to use the women’s toilets, I’d be okay with that. Except one of them, because he’s a creepy fucker, regardless of what name he goes by.

That may, I think, be the crux of it. Men are mostly fine, except when they’re not. That sentence is true when you replace the word ‘men’ with ‘women’, ‘transexuals’, ‘penguins’, almost anything.

And finally, I think I may have figured out what I think about it all.

I’m not transphobic, and I do not need to fear having that thrown at me as an insult. In exactly the same way, I’m not anti-Christian , and I don’t need to fear being called so for thinking that the Westboro Baptist Church is a shower of hatred. They might call themselves Christian, but I don’t have to agree. I do not hold Muslims responsible for terrorism committed by terrorists calling themselves followers of Islam. I do not hold trans women or trans men responsible for the views of a vocal minority. That vocal minority might like to call lesbians transphobic for not wanting to sleep with them, but they can bog right off. My vagina, my right to decide what does or, more usually, does not get to access it.

I feel so lucky to be cis. I’m not trans, and I’m grateful for it. But if anyone, cis, trans, otherwise, wants to tell me I must accept being penetrated by their penis, and that being reluctant about that makes me the bad person in the situation, then no. NO. I don’t accept that.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 08/07/2018 22:13

I feel so lucky to be cis. I’m not trans, and I’m grateful for it. But if anyone, cis, trans, otherwise, wants to tell me I must accept being penetrated by their penis, and that being reluctant about that makes me the bad person in the situation, then no. NO. I don’t accept that

I suggest strongly that you stop using the word cis. Just use the word woman.

BiologyIsReal · 08/07/2018 22:18

Exactly. Cis is a redundant word. Woman will do nicely - just as it has since the beginning of time.

Ereshkigal · 08/07/2018 22:20

I’m allowed to be a person with an opinion, despite having been conditioned otherwise.

You are. And you don't have to put male feelings first. Including those of your creepy colleague. If you want to call yourself that c word it's up to you. Most women here reject it with everything we have though. For reasons.

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SirVixofVixHall · 08/07/2018 22:38

Stephen Fry often did that disgusted and repulsed thing whenever anything to do with women’s bodies came up on QI.

FrenchDucksSayCoinCoin · 08/07/2018 22:55

Tells, Biology, Eresh thanks for acknowledging. I will certainly consider my use of language further. I am new to this and confused and hurt and angry to see that women are being suppressed in ways I hadn’t noticed previously.

AppleBlossomTimeNow · 08/07/2018 23:12

Thanks FrenchDucks I like what you wrote x

Datun · 08/07/2018 23:21

FrenchDucksSayCoinCoin

I like what you wrote too.

Maybe the slight difference between you and me, say, is that what you think is a minority, I think is the majority.

I used to think it was just a handful of vocal, misogynistic men, whether they were genuinely trans or not.

But it seems to have snowballed, attracting the worst, possible kind of misogynist.

And you're quite right, once you start to see sexism, it's like the goggles come off and it's everywhere.

HollowTalk · 08/07/2018 23:22

I lost all respect for Stephen Fry when he insulted that woman who'd won an award.

Gacapa · 08/07/2018 23:41

I’ve long thought he drips with misogyny. He’s so thoroughly sanctimonious and not even close to how intelligent he thinks he is.

He should be embarrassed by that tweet. It’s all over the place when subjected to any kind of intellectual rigour. I can’t bear him.

TiltedTowers · 08/07/2018 23:59

saying something along the lines of 'I know women say they like sex but if they did they'd be out cottaging in parks' - wow, he is showing that he can only imagine a male perspective. The female perspective, and enjoying sex on different terms doesn't exist for him. He can't fathom it.

I think he should be embarrassed as well. Even before his comments I remember thinking he wasn't as intelligent as he believed he was. He made it his Brand, that's all.

Whaddyawantnow · 09/07/2018 01:29

@HollowTalk who was that?

InionEile · 09/07/2018 05:11

What infuriates me about this is how one-directional it is. Lesbians who declare that 'lesbian = female homosexual' are transphobic bigots, TERFS, who need to be silenced and shunned. Yet it would not be controversial to say that 'gay man = male homosexual'. No-one is debating the meaning of the word 'man'. No-one is forcing male homosexuals to accept transmen in their traditional spaces where they typically meet other gay men in an accepting environment.

Why is it that only lesbians must accept and acknowledge transwomen in their spaces when no-one is shouting from the rooftops about the 'transphobia' of gay men who refuse to take transmen seriously as members of their community? Transwomen are incredibly vocal and hate-filled in their condemnation of lesbians and even have a slur that is largely directed at 'cis'-women, TERF, yet there is no equivalent hatred coming from transmen.

I can only conclude that most of this 'TERF'-hatred is driven by misogyny and the born-male privilege of these transwomen is what powers them to dominate the media narrative and get their voices heard while the voices of women, lesbians or otherwise, are silenced.

Melanippe · 09/07/2018 08:39

Given that Mr Fry told sex abuse survivors to grow up and get on with it, because self-pity is a horrible thing and he can't have any sympathy for you unless you stop being sad about your rape or child abuse, I don't think I'm going to take much of what he says about anything seriously.

He did subsequently apologise, but in such a way as to make it sound as if it wasn't really what he'd said that was at fault, but stupid people's interpretation of what he'd clearly said.

starcrossedseahorse · 09/07/2018 09:08

He is an utter prick and has nailed his colours to the mast once again.

JoanSummers · 09/07/2018 09:15

Stephen Fry often did that disgusted and repulsed thing whenever anything to do with women’s bodies came up on QI.

It is a lazy joke for easy laughs. Heterosexual men get to let out a not of misogyny and homophobia at the same time by laughing at both women's disgusting bodies and gay men's disgusting sexualities while showing how progressive they are by laughing at a gay man's jokes instead of spitting on him.

JoanSummers · 09/07/2018 09:16

Let out a bit

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