Jeremy Corbyn now supports the Nordic model

[QuarksandLeptons]

Such fantastic news and real progress. The leader of the opposition has come out in favour of the Nordic model.

twitter.com/sarahchampionmp/status/1015603574829658112?s=21

This is real progress. Sarah Champion and Jess Phillips must have been instrumental in explaining why this model is needed to Jeremy Corbyn who had previously voiced support for full decriminalisation. Full decriminalisation legally favours the corporate prostitution industry (pimps and buyers) over the safety and dignity of the women who end up in prostitution.

The Nordic model is the name for a legal approach to prostitution where the woman (or man) selling themselves for sex is decriminalised and is not prosecuted. Support services are provided for people leaving prostitution. Pimps, brothel owners and buyers who make money out of or buy women for sex are criminalised.

This model is in use in Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Northern Ireland, Canada, France, and Ireland. Rates of trafficking drop when the model is implemented as it reduces the demand for buying women for sex.

More info here:
nordicmodelnow.org/what-is-the-nordic-model/

Offred
(Sorry I am being realllly slow on reading this thread)
If somewhere has the Nordic model but no purchasers are actually prosecuted then what they actually have is decriminalisation in effect isn’t it?
Not exactly.
In the Republic of Ireland for example, they have the same laws as here in Britain apart from they added "purchasing sex" as a criminal offence alongside soliciting, pandering, living off immoral earnings (etc).
People think of a "pure" Nordic model meaning be everything is completely fine including someone taking a cut off a prostitutes wage, and only clients are acting illegally. But this doesn't exist in countries that apply the purchase of sex ban. Usually many other activities surrounding prostitution are also illegal.

I don’t know about the particularities if Irish laws but if it doesn’t decriminalise sex workers and criminalise punters then it’s not accurate to use the term ‘Nordic model’ surely? Simply adding sex purchasing to the existing law represents greater criminalisation without any shifting of responsibility.

Either way, decriminalising the selling and criminalising the purchasing is in effect decriminalisation re the purchaser/provider aspects if nobody is prosecuted.

Not really because no one would ever say Britain has a decriminalisation model towards prostitution, with the absence of any purchase of sex ban. In Nordic countries they range from bring very strict toward women who sell sex to more relaxed but most have agreed on the purchase of sex to be prohibited alongside many other harmful activities around prostitution.

"The Nordic Model" on prostitution really is simply the 'radical' addition of the purchasing sex onto the list of illegal activities surrounding prostitution.

In New Zealand under decriminalisation virtually nothing is illegal, including running a brothel, living off the proceeds of another person's prostitution, and soliciting. The only illegal activity is coercion. Legal-but-regulated prostitution is in practice extremely laissez faire.

The idea that no one has been convicted of buying sex, sorry if I'm mistaken but does this not come from the Irish (republic) statistics?
Don't forget the purchase of sex only became illegal there in March 2017 so little over a year ago, and like I said it's not designed for the state to track down all punters to arrest them... they do need to be reported first so if no men have been reported that to me shows it's working. It's far from decriminalised when you still have laws against many other activities around prostitution.

In other countries with nm there have been criminal records for men who buy sex and the results have been positive.

It's funny because as soon as countries got the idea for men to be prohibited from buying sex it needed to be given a very special name...
When abolishionist laws in England first developed like a ban on brothel keeping in 1751 it wasn't called "The English Model" or given a very special name of any kind...

Obviously it's not the Nordic Model if prostitutes themselves are also criminalised like in America. It is actually illegal to both buy and sell sex in parts of America.
NM does not criminalise the seller unless they are engaged in very specific illegal behaviour.
It's not decriminalisation unless all or most activities surrounding prostitution are also permitted.

Jeremy will say whatever he thinks will win him more votes. He will also promise the world because he has a never ending cheque book

Great news 👍🏻

I don’t think that makes much sense TBH.

There is; all aspects of sex work are illegal, all aspects of sex work are legal, then there are various mixes of legal/illegal.

The Nordic model is not a term that relates only to sex work, it’s a political philosophy which includes, but is not limited to, an approach to sex work.

The approach is to shift criminal responsibility onto the purchaser and away from the sex workers, based on a particular philosophical understanding of the power dynamics involved.

If something is legalised it goes from being illegal to legal. If something is criminalised it goes from being legal to illegal. Decriminalisation is used differently, sometimes interchangeably with legalisation, and sometimes to mean lack of enforcement, though it remains an illegal activity in principle.

(Or reductions re enforcement; reducing penalties etc)

You're trying to say that nordic model not enforced is the same as decriminalisation.

I'm saying no it's not because decriminalisation means all aspects of sex work are permitted such as running a brothel, pandering, pimping, assisting sex work, soliciting and taking a cut. That's what decriminalisation means in practice.

Nordic countries that have the approach of not criminalising prostitutes but criminalising punters do not also permit running of brothels or pimping, taking a cut etc either.

Decriminalisation of sex workers themselves is very common but other aspects of prostitution quite rightly are commonly illegal.

You're trying to over simplify it.

No, I’m saying the Nordic model without enforcement of the law criminalising punters is in effect decriminalisation (re punters).

Legalisation or ‘full decriminalisation is something different and if countries have simply added laws to criminalise buying sex to existing laws then this is not the Nordic Model re sex work.

if countries have simply added laws to criminalise buying sex to existing laws then this is not the Nordic Model re sex work

The revolutionary Nordic Model originated in Sweden and this is precisely what they did. They added "the sex purchase law 1999".
Third party activity was already criminalised prior to this and detailed, not dissimilar to current UK laws. The criminalization of the purchase of sex, but not the selling of sex was unique to Sweden at the time.

Ireland were said to have adopted the Nordic Model when their Criminal Law Sexual Offenses act 1993 was amended to include the purchase of sex. The UK has always been hard on 3rd party activity but not the workers themselves.

Obviously countries that take a hard line approach to selling sex, and the workers themselves, would not be said to adopt the Nordic model even if they add a sex purchase law, unless they redo all their other laws around sex work.

I think you are simplifying it actually... Boiling it down to introducing a law criminalising punters...

What I’m trying to say is that The Nordic Model describes a political philosophy. It isnt just introducing a law criminalising punters, it isn’t just about policies re prostitution but also about welfare, the economy, crime etc

I am trying to say re prostitution the main thing (not the only thing) that distinguishes the Nordic model from other models is the political philosophy of shifting the burden of criminality from provider to purchaser.

It is not about particular laws.You don’t look at Sweden in 1999 and say ‘they introduced laws re purchasing, that’s the Nordic model’ because the Nordic Model is a political philosophy.

The comment I made was in relation to the discussion re measuring the effects of the Nordic model vs legalisation/decriminalisation. The current approach to policing individuals re purchasing cannabis (illegal on paper, police take a light touch approach) is that there has been an increase in people believing that cannabis is not illegal, increased numbers smoking it in the street, parks etc enforcement/lack of enforcement affects people’s attitudes hence my point re comparing changes in society and the in effect comment.

About fucking time too. I don' understand how anyone can be against it tbh. Unless they feel sorry for the poor men, and think women should also be criminalized, or womens bodies should be available to buy on the local high street.