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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

John Bercow's rant about Gender Critical women

138 replies

junebedford82 · 05/07/2018 17:27

Just saw this on P*k News
www.pinknews.co.uk/2018/07/04/speaker-john-bercow-tells-pinknews-reception-2/

Bercow
"There’s still a huge challenge in terms of the trans community. We need to up our level of standing up for the rights of trans people. We shouldn’t allow people to peddle anti-trans messages under the guise of trying to protect other people’s rights. We shouldn’t let people muddy the waters in that way. It’s just not people screaming abuse in the streets – it’s sometimes people who have access to the media and can write articulately, and are using their position to push messages which I think result in very considerable and dangerous displays of hostility to trans people. Up with that we must not put, as Churchill might have said.”

What on earth is he doing? How can a supposedly-independent speaker intervene on something in the middle of the government consultation?

Angry Angry Angry
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Wanderabout · 06/07/2018 08:03

Bercow is not the Conservative party. His comments have no sway and serve only to show him up as a sexist dick.

R0wantrees · 06/07/2018 08:03

From PN reporting of the Home Affairs committee on Hate Crime:

(extract below refers to the interview of Ian Brunskill, Assistant Editor of The Times)

"Pushed by Doughty on whether the term “trans lobby” was acceptable, [Brunskill] said: “I don’t have any objection to that. There is a lobby, or rather there are several transgender lobbies.”

Asked if he would use the term ‘gay lobby’ or ‘Jewish lobby’, Brunskill replied: “If there were one.”"

James Kirkup: 'Why are some MPs trying to shut down the transgender debate?'

"The other column that Doughty was so interested in also concerned children. In particular, he was struck by the Times’ headline using the phrase “trans lobby”. This, for reference, was on a column that argued that a number of changes in policy and convention are being made at the urging of groups advocating things that they say would benefit transgender people which, the columnist suggested, were not in the best interests of children. “You will understand why that is a particular concern, given the previous use of “gay lobby”, “Jewish lobby” and all of those sorts of things,” Doughty said. “Do you think the use of the phrase “trans lobby” is an appropriate one?”

As it happens, Dr Carmichael in her lecture said some things that seem relevant here:

“Gender has become amazingly topical and we have to be really careful not to assume that anyone is exploring or questioning their gender is going to want to change their bodies in line with that. The extremes on either side are not helpful. We need to look at the grey areas in between. To do that we need to be able to talk and discuss these issues. All too often stakeholders become lobby groups.”

She did not name any stakeholder. But her words might be relevant to a charity called Mermaids. Mermaids is a charity that describes itself as “a support group for children and young people with gender dysphoria and their families”. Its CEO, Susie Green describes herself as “parent to a daughter who was born male.” Mermaids is a relatively small charity (it had income of £127,000 in the year to March 2017) with a big reach. It has prominent backers and its advice and recommendations have been absorbed and adopted by many public bodies."

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/05/why-are-some-mps-trying-to-shut-down-the-transgender-debate/

Trans Media Watch's submission to the Home Affairs Committee:
"We are pleased to make this submission to the Committee’s Inquiry into hate speech

Trans Media Watch is a charity registered in 2010 with the express aim of encouraging the British media to report on trans and intersex issues with accuracy, dignity and respect – three cornerstones we would expect every media organisation to uphold. A representative from the charity (Helen Belcher) gave oral evidence to the Leveson Inquiry in 2012, and also to the Women and Equalities Select Committee’s Inquiry into trans issues in 2015

We have been monitoring the British media’s reporting of trans and intersex issues since 2010, and can observe the trends in terms of topics covered and tone used.' (continues)

'Of particular current concern is Mumsnet. Originally set up to be a support group for mothers, the website has expanded to have a variety of “boards”
. The feminist activism board seems to have become an area for those opposed to trans rights to organise. 18 out of the latest 26 threads are conversations on trans rights, with a large number of posts alleging variations of “trans women are men”. The feminist chat board also has a number of threads on the “trans agenda”, containing posts such as “I have no hatred for transwomen, I just don't want to be anywhere near humans who were born with a penis”

thread discusssing Trans Media Watch written evidence

Intersex Community have issues with Trans Media Watch:
by twitter.com/mrkhtake2
"The problem in the UK is that Trans Media Watch have been allowed to become voice of the intersex community, for example, in this report to the hate crimes committee which was submitted by them..

The document says intersex all over it but represents very little from intersex community. In fact, if this is supposed to be looking at accurate reporting and media representation in order to fight prejudice, why didn’t they pick up on this?

@NUJofficial why does your LGBT+ advice say that intersex people are transgender and reduce complex medical conditions to one wildly inaccurate statement? This is ignorant and offensive, and explains why our representation is so poor in the media. Can you please fix this?"

Quick note: The head of NUJ ethics council has said they will review this at their next meeting since being made aware
Gender radical trans organisations can’t represent intersex people as their beliefs are interphobic. I witness this all the time. The gender radical view that chromosomes have nothing to do with sex and my inability to conform means I am called a man a lot by trans activists. "

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1013106135002476544.html

Macareaux · 06/07/2018 08:17

I'm loving the idea of Beecow being deluged with postcards from GC women with apposite Churchillian quotations.

I can guarantee Bercow does not think TWAW on several counts:

  1. For personal relationships purposes (as per all het woke bros)
  1. He may be misogynistic but he is not stupid
  1. If he really believes TWAW and given that he does not support women then he would not bother vociferously supporting TW.
Baroquehavoc · 06/07/2018 08:19

All excellent points, Macareaux

R0wantrees · 06/07/2018 08:22

The primary issue is the power of lobby groups.

There is often talk of Orwell's language and reference to 'Nineteen Eighty Four.'

Orwell also wrote Animal Farm in which power and control is a central theme (as any GCSE student will describe) :

www.bbc.com/education/guides/zw26hyc/revision/4

www.bbc.com/education/guides/zw26hyc/revision/4

Floorplan · 06/07/2018 08:35

Maybe Bercow has very personal reasons for supporting trans. Very personal.

partystress · 06/07/2018 08:36

He is my MP. I will right and express my concern. We effectively don't have an MP because he can't speak in debates. Then of all the issues to decide not to be neutral on...

Macareaux · 06/07/2018 09:02

Ah yes

Any mature bloke who loudly supports the TWAW line could be a closet AGP.

"The protection of badgers has a long pedigree
Arthur Gore, known as “Boofy”, the eighth Earl of Arran, was a fanatical defender of them. He was also a tireless campaigner for the rights of homosexuals. In 1967 he managed to push through a law in the House of Lords that decriminalised homosexuality but failed to pass a bill to outlaw the cruel hunting of badgers. When asked why he had not received enough support for his badger bill, he replied: “Not many badgers in the House of Lords.”"

R0wantrees · 06/07/2018 09:07

Maybe Bercow has very personal reasons for supporting Pink News? Very personal?

Ereshkigal · 06/07/2018 09:08

I can guarantee Bercow does not think TWAW on several counts:

1. For personal relationships purposes (as per all het woke bros)

2. He may be misogynistic but he is not stupid

3. If he really believes TWAW and given that he does not support women then he would not bother vociferously supporting TW.

Nailed it.

Hexcode16 · 06/07/2018 10:09

I’m really tired of being called anti-trans, I’m not, I believe transgender people should be treated with as much compassion and respect as any other human being, but women have the right to discuss our unique issues with being threatened and abused for daring to disagree with the current zeitgeist around trans issues.

Hexcode16 · 06/07/2018 10:11

With=without, give us an edit button MN! Blush

ChattyLion · 06/07/2018 10:15

I find this very disappointing from Bercow who is pro choice. I had naively assumed from that that he had an inkling around the importance of listening to women’s voices. Hmm

enoughisenough12 · 06/07/2018 10:22

I'm always interested in the complaints about 'lobby groups'. Wikipedia defines it as:

Lobbying, persuasion, or interest representation is the act of attempting to influence the actions, policies, or decisions of officials in their daily life, most often legislators or members of regulatory agencies.

GIRES states that it is ..a UK wide organisation whose purpose is to improve the lives of trans and gender non-conforming people of all ages, including those who are non-binary and non-gender.
We use evidence from these individuals’ lived experiences, combined with scientific research into gender identity development, to educate all those who are able to improve their wellbeing. We contribute to policy development regarding equality and human rights for these individuals, especially in healthcare.
We also deliver training, e-learning and information to public and private sector organisations.....

Much of this is lobbying. Nothing wrong with that, it's just the desperate denials and contortions to persuade the rest of us that 2 + 2 = 5 . It's extreme and endless - and untruthful.

arranfan · 06/07/2018 11:32

Notes the disturbing use of articulate by Bercow as a term of disparagement.

And yes to PP who've commented on the perception that it's GC women who have funding, friends in media, ready access to air time etc.

----
When asked why he had not received enough support for his badger bill, he replied: “Not many badgers in the House of Lords.”"

The other reported variation on that remark is, "Because there are more buggers than badgers in the House of Lords".

ChattyLion · 06/07/2018 11:44

arran yes what a slimy insinuation.
You’re too ‘articulate’ as well as too female so you should shut up. Speak only when you are spoken to.
Is he saying that that Parliamentarians and the public should only hear from groups where their narrative has been mediated by others (the establishment who are allowed to be articulate Hmm) , ie where the speech of ‘other’ voices has been filtered and controlled? Fuck that for tokenism and propping up a privileged establishment system.

Waddlelikeapenguin · 06/07/2018 13:12

Macareaux
I'm loving the idea of Beecow being deluged with postcards from GC women with apposite Churchillian quotations.
Can we do this? Totally worth a stamp (or 6) Grin

AnchorMum · 06/07/2018 13:55

Despicable rhetoric from Bercow.

With the GRA consultation launch this week we shouldn't be surprised at the ratcheting up of pressure on those who legitimately want to discuss the issues.**

The use of selective quotes to make people 'join the dots' is disturbing:

This tweet from Brighton & Hove LGBT in response to a piece in the Brighton Argus, interviewing Dr Kathleen Stock ahead of the WPUK meeting in Brighton on July 16th:

In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence
*of our friends", Dr Martin Luther King, Jr.

and yes, we do not forget. How they abused us in the past, Lesbians, Gay men, bisexuals, all of us.*

Memory is not a threat but a warning.

ErrolTheDragon · 06/07/2018 14:05

It occurs to me that maybe Bercow isn't even bothering listening to women given the 'trying to protect other people’s rights.' And 'access to the media and can write articulately' - he's probably pissed with James Kirkup.

R0wantrees · 06/07/2018 14:08

"I'm loving the idea of Beecow being deluged with postcards from GC women with apposite Churchillian quotations.
Can we do this? Totally worth a stamp (or 6)"

I have written mine. Popping it in the post today #ManFriday

R0wantrees · 06/07/2018 14:12

Indeed!

John Bercow's rant about Gender Critical women
R0wantrees · 06/07/2018 14:15

(Now I have James on earwig loop)

John Bercow's rant about Gender Critical women
R0wantrees · 06/07/2018 14:21

he's probably pissed with James Kirkup.

John Bercow's rant about Gender Critical women
Waddlelikeapenguin · 06/07/2018 15:10

R0wantrees
I have written mine. Popping it in the post today #ManFriday

Mine is written. Now to look about in a confused manner & ask my wife where we keep the stamps #manfriday Grin

Maybe twitter people could tweet him Churchill too?