Your comments for Penny Mordaunt

[gendercritter]

I just read on another thread that Justine is meeting with Penny Mordaunt soon.

In Justine's words: 'You should also know that I’m due to meet soon with Penny Mordaunt to discuss “any ideas you may have on the women and equalities agenda’' and I will of course reflect the strong opinion of many Mumsnetters wrt to this issue and ask her to do a webchat too.'

I thought this was worth highlighting so people can leave comments here for @justinemumsnet to mull over and raise with Penny. Perhaps, Justine, you could print them all off and hand them over to her when you see her.

Thank you.

The questions I would ask are:

Can you explain why it is not the epitome of sexism to allow the social stereotypes one’s follows to legally define one’s sex?

Can you explain why it is not sexist and a violation of women’s and girl’s safety and privacy, to allow males to become legally recognised as woman, and enter female only spaces, then force women to prove why these men should be not be permitted admittance?

Can you explain why safeguarding policies exist, and why males should not have to abide by those polices if they identify as women?

Can you explain why women who have been diagnosed with PTSD, anxiety etc, as a result of male violence should be legally forced to share intimate spaces such as changing rooms etc, with males who identify as women, even though it increases their distress?

Can you explain why it is not lesbophobic to allow heterosexual men to be legally recognised as ‘lesbian women’, and force lesbians to prove why these men should not be permitted in lesbian groups, spaces etc?

Can you explain why it is not homosexual conversion therapy of children suspected of being homosexual, when the evidence shows that the vast majority of children who are diagnosed with gender dysphoria grow up to be gay or lesbian if left alone?

Can you explain why allowing more males the ability to legally be classified as women does not infringe on girls and women’s rights?

the majority believed that homosexuality was wrong which led to the arrest and suicide of Alan Turing, one of the great tragedies of the 20th Century.

Ironically this poster has chosen Alan Turing who was forced to take cross
-sex hormones or go to prison for being gay. It needs to be pointed out that many gays and lesbians who are not affiliated with the alphabet soup (myself included) realise the ideology of transgenderism is very much a continuation of the conversion therapy of gay and lesbians in many cases. Particularly in the case of the young, where it is well known that most children diagnosed with gender dysphoria grow up to be gays and lesbians, if left alone. It needs to be made clear that this ideology is not in the least progressive, but in fact is extremely regressive.

Where has Justine's thread gone??

I'd reiterate the suggestion that Justine takes an articulate representative of the GC view on MN with her. As her recent posts suggest she has not herself understood the position.
The thought of penny Morduant and Justine discussing this actually makes me angry. Women who refuse to hear us, talking about us.

I'd ask PM: if TW are women, what shall we call that specific group of people born with the type of biology with the potential to gestate? Remember them?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3297067-Mumsnet-moderation-response-to-yesterdays-feedback

they have said, haven't they, that single sex exemptions will still apply after any revision of the GRA
my concern though is that the normalisation of allowing transwomen intoi women's spaces will being about a culture where it will be difficult to apply those exmptions, especially if they have to be fought for on a case by case basis
for example, if a transwoman is a nurse and it becomes normalised that they give intimate care to women, it will be increasingly hard for women to decline that care/ask for another nurse, even if the patient is entitled to do so

Although I hold out no hope whatsoever of PM being asked anything remotely challenging or reality based, or having anything but a highly politically correct cosy chat about biscuits.

Can't a one topic webchat be requested? Sure I have seen that suggested before on here. Should stave off the fluffy questions that she can grip onto to avoid the more difficult ones in any case..

the thing that makes no sense to me is this. single sex exemptions will not be revised, but if someone can self ID as a woman, then they will classed as a woman with a female BC???? so sex exemption is meaningless, also considering the climate, it will be very hard for any organisation to enforce without having transphobia shouted at them.

But if trans women are women because they say they are and gender identity trumps all then what does it matter anyway. why self ID?

the whole issues is just a minefield. I can't see how any legislation can really be written and enforced based on someones sense of self.

Yes to a single issue webchat.

If she thinks TW are women could she please come on MN and explain why.

If the starting point is that TWAW, what about transmen? Do they appear on her radar at all? And what does she think about the pressure on lesbians to have sex with 'transbians'?

Questions for Penny Mordaunt:

1. Can you expand on what you think ‘Transwomen are women’ means?
2. What is your definition of woman? ( without using the word woman in the definition)
3. What do you believe is the difference between sex and gender?

4.Do you think people can actually be born in the wrong body ? If so how does that work biologically? or is this just a metaphor for something? If so what does it mean 5.Who suffers the most physical violence in this country ( as a proportion of their population - trans women or biological women? 6.do you agree that gender is an unhelpful and restrictive social construct ?

Questions for PM:

1. Will detransitioning surgery be made available on the NHS

1. Do you plan to lower the age for hormone blockers/sex hormones/GRS? If so what ages?

1. How do you plan to circumvent the logical discrepancy in your plan to outlaw conversion therapy eg one parent wants to convert their gay child into a trans child vs the other parent who wants to convert their trans child into a gay child? Who is correct and how can we trust the child to know which they are?

What effects does taking testosterone for decades have on female-bodied individuals (aside from sterility, vaginal atrophy, etc)?

If there is no robust medical evidence that this medical intervention is safe (let alone effective), why is the NHS funding it?

Should male-bodied people who are accused of a crime be allowed to identify themselves to the police as female?
Should the police be allowed to tell the media that those male-bodied people are female?
Should the media be allowed to report that those male-bodied people are female?
Should those male-bodied people be allowed to go to a female prison?

P.S All of the above have happened!

Lots of excellent questions already. A couple more to add in:

It would be interesting to know what she understands by the term transgender - for example what percentages of men/women/boys/girls are affected and how? So how many have had or are planning surgery (or old style transsexuals), how many have gender dysphoria vs AGP (does she know what this is even?) vs rapid onset gender dysphoria. And why does she think it’s approriate to pander to those with AGP?

Why are they not collecting stats on sex and gender in polls and the census and records so that useful data is gathered rather than the mid recording of violent and sexual crimes committed by trans people ( especially those born male) as the stays will be meaningless without this info. And worse, they will be screwed - rubbish data in means rubbish rubbish data out.

Oops that last line was meant to be rubbish data and policies out.

If you stated in a pre election manifesto an intent to remove all sex segregation for women, the right to female only health care professionals for women, and that the government would be anti science and proposing to punish people for blasphemy against the new anti science beliefs do you think you would have won an election? Knicknackpaddyflak, this is such an excellent point, and one I will be asking MPs

If you take the biology out of "woman" what are you left with, other than stereotypes for performed femininity, and do you agree that these are what should legally define what a woman is?

Has Penny read the description of Gender Dysphoria as defined my the DSM V, (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders). Page 456 to help.

Does the sexual arousal aspect of the definition reflect what she believed we were talking about? Does she understand that "Trans" is an umbrella term? Does she, after reading this, feel mislead?

Does Penny understand the difference between dysmorphia and dysphoria?

Is Penny comfortable with sharing her space with someone who has been diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria, who has (as defined by the DSM V) an arousal response to role playing a "feminine" personality?

Does Penny believe we should all be accommodating, unwittingly or unwillingly other behaviours which have a sexual motivation? Or is it "ok" if no touching takes place? For example, should we change or perception of "flashing" if the perpetrator identifies as a nudist? Should we be more progressive and accept this as their right to their own sexual identity?

The NHS is at breaking point. Non-urgent operations, from varicose veins to tonsillectomies, breast reductions to Haemorrhoids are going to taken away.

How then do you propose to justify elective, cosmetic surgery on patients with gender dysphoria, if you remove the requirement to have a formal diagnosis ?

What will be offered - breast removal on a healthy young female yes, breast reduction that causes intense back pain for an older women...no.

What about cosmetic surgery to feminise male faces? Vs removal of unsightly but benign skin lesions. Are the NHS going to kow-tow to the translobby at the expense of other NHS users?

Secondly, given the instances of detransistion, and the reluctance of academia to allow research into this area because its not Woke, what are you going to do to ensure that the people allowed to have gender reassignment hormones and surgery are not suffering from other psychiatric issues? There's extensive data to show that most trans individuals also have concurrent psychiatric issues, like depression, anxiety, and personality disorders. Without the gatekeeping service of time and psychiatric assessment, are the government not opening themselves to huge lawsuits in the future for negligence.

Finally, what are the government going to do about the fake information peddled by stonewall and mermaids, both of whom have unbelievable amounts of influence in all spheres of public services? Are the government going to take some action to stop the propaganda?

I want to repeat my question, because it is important.

How does Penny Mordaunt propose to undo the damage done to the integrity of the single sex exemptions in EqA in the wake of Maria Miller's disastrously prejudicial and biased report that proposed to remove them. Since then, organisations - for example, women's DV orgs, the Guides, YHA - have removed their exemptions in an effort to "get ahead of the law".

Women and girls in the UK have already lost ground because of Ms Miller's failure to grasp the issues and implications and insistence on listening to extremist trans lobby groups such as ATH. What does Ms Mordaunt plan to do to address this?

Why, in a public consultation attempting to tease out the difference between sex and gender, does the "easy read" document conflate sex and gender in a way that obfuscates the object of the consultation?

Does Government wish to confuse people because the consultation is nothing more than a tick box exercise?

Question for Penny:

If people have been changing sex for decades, how many:
a - Men who 'became' women have gestated a baby?
b - Women who 'became' men provided sperm for a woman to gestate a baby?

If the answer is 'none' - then the project failed.

Thus the GRA needs to be repealed as it turns out - nobody did actually change sex after all.

Penny do you actually think it is bigoted and phobic of women to want personal spaces free of people who have a penis or have lived a life with male socialisation and privilege?

Can you see any other oppressed group being expected to just give up their spaces without complaint or fear?

Do you accept male violence and truly believe there won’t be situations where men will use self ID to be access vulnerable women?

Do you agree that classes including sex classes should be allowed to organise and campaign as a class?

Do you honestly honestly not think that chromosomal sex class is real?

If so what is a woman? Can anyone declare themselves a woman and if so based on what?

I'm going to repeat Langclegs question as it is crucial:

How does Penny Mordaunt propose to undo the damage done to the integrity of the single sex exemptions in EqA in the wake of Maria Miller's disastrously prejudicial and biased report that proposed to remove them. Since then, organisations - for example, women's DV orgs, the Guides, YHA - have removed their exemptions in an effort to "get ahead of the law".

Penny, for clarification please:

You believe that transwomrn are women, even the ones still with a penis, and those who intend to keep it?

I think the general public need to know this so we can decide whether we agree.