Your comments for Penny Mordaunt

[gendercritter]

I just read on another thread that Justine is meeting with Penny Mordaunt soon.

In Justine's words: 'You should also know that I’m due to meet soon with Penny Mordaunt to discuss “any ideas you may have on the women and equalities agenda’' and I will of course reflect the strong opinion of many Mumsnetters wrt to this issue and ask her to do a webchat too.'

I thought this was worth highlighting so people can leave comments here for @justinemumsnet to mull over and raise with Penny. Perhaps, Justine, you could print them all off and hand them over to her when you see her.

Thank you.

We are doing so little to challenge sexists stereotypes and so much to enforce them, why is this? Why are the government promoting anti scientific arguments that are easily disproved? They haven't shown much concern for other vulnerable groups, say disabled people who have to fill in form after form to receive basic income if they are lucky.

But trans people seem to be a higher priority. Women and girls lose safe spaces without impact assessments, government documents use gobbledigook and anti scientific language, no impact assessments are carried out when changes are made that affect vulnerable groups.

Why? Why is all of this being adopted so fast when so much is founded on internal beliefs and ideology? We are doing so little for disabled people who demonstrably need help. We are doing nothing to challenge harmful sexist stereotypes. But we are throwing all our weight behind an ideology that states men can be women and lady brains exist.

I would like to ask Penny Mordant, 'when you say trans women are women' what exactly do you mean by that?

As bad as the timing was I absolutely welcome the announcement against gay cure therapy. So credit where its due. The 'consultation' on gender reads like a scripted question and answer. Its not about this and we aren't interested in that, pre-empting our questions effectively.

What is your definition of the the word woman that includes women, anyone who identifies as a woman but excludes men?

Do you think someone who has transitioned as an adult can truly understand a female lived experience?

Would you trust someone who has lived the majority of their life as a man to advocate for your needs correctly?

Do you understand why some women may be uncomfortable sharing spaces with people with an XY chromosome and a penis?

Do you not think crime, health and employment statistics may become skewed if we include cis and trans people in the same group with no separation?

Are you comfortable with the idea of young children being given untested drugs to delay puberty and being pushed down a road that leads to transitioning, with all that involves?

Hmm.
I clicked on this thinking I had something to say, not knowing that it was suggestions for Justine.

What I would say to Ms Mordaunt is not words I would put in someone elses mouth and would be very rude and involve some swearing.

So I will just say good luck Justine, and read the sensible, polite suggestions and some of the recent comments on threads about this subject.

It's all there in blazing, brilliant, technicolor.

I would like to ask her why and when she decided to sell women down the river? What particular point in her life did she decide to bow down to misogynists and give a big FY to women?

Glibly parroting that “transwomen are women” isn’t good enough. It isn’t a starting point, it’s a shutdown.

Please remember, Ms Mordaunt, that you are an elected representative and a Minister and as such should be representing your constituents and adequately addressing your portfolio.

Preponderance of opinion matters.

Well said Battleax.

What is the advantage of segregating people via gender instead of biological sex? There is a practical purpose to segregating humans by natal sex. I cannot see any good reason to separate based on the subjective notion of gender. You may as well segregate on music type, I think.

There is a practical purpose to segregating humans by natal sex.

If you segregate on "natal sex" then people (trans men) with beards, penises and testosterone are going to be in women's spaces. That is not practical.

I appreciated Penny Mordaunt signing during her speech in commons today so I would ask:

A lot of the focus seems to be making the process less onerous for trans people, why are processes for vulnerable people e.g. PIP made more onerous time and time again when people may have to apply multiple times during their lifetimes versus once for a GRC?

Should an historical document such as a birth cert be easily changed and if so should people who apply for deed polls or even get married and change surname be able to get a birth cert in their new name?

Preponderance of opinion matters.

If you think back through history you will see that "preponderance of opinion" has a habit of taking society some terrible places. For example, the majority believed that homosexuality was wrong which led to the arrest and suicide of Alan Turing, one of the great tragedies of the 20th Century.

Snappity: trans third spaces can be in addition to natal sex spaces. Tbh there is no reason those people cannot use men's facilities, is there? This problem is one created by transactivists. If female people 'pass' as men, there is no reason for them to use female spaces. They are no danger to men, and men are not complaining. There is no campaign by men for their right to same sex spaces. We should keep women's spaces for bio sex, and either add a third mixed sex space or turn the men's into mixed sex. If the men campaign against (they aren't at all right now) one could rethink.

Snappity: transgenderism is deeply homophobic. It's horrific the abuse lesbians get for their same sex attraction. This is one example of the dreadful homophobia one can find among transactivists. There are so many more.

I didn’t say it’s always been perfect snappity; I said it matters. Especially, one would hope, to an elected politician.

I agree with Battleax too.

Good point Snappity.

I am seeing young gay kids coming out as the opposite sex, particularly young lesbians. They can end up on a road that leads to infertility which, you must agree, is horrific.

We need to stand up for gay and lesbian kids, it's okay to love your own sex. It's okay to wear any clothes that fit your body. Your bodies are fine as they are.

What do I tell my 15 yo DD about keeping herself safe in our open plan gym changing rooms?

How will they make sure that women survivors of male violence are able to access services and spaces rather than exclude themselves because of the fear of men when they are vulnerable? Does she understand this fear is physiological, wired into our neural pathways, and not cognitive?

I would like to ask her what will be the point of us celebrating women's sporting achievements, and the long record the UK have of taking part and winning on the world stage, if men are now allowed to compete as women.

I would also like to ask who is going to look after vulnerable women and children? We have wonderful volunteers giving time and money the Government say they cannot afford (a fight there for another day) to ensure those vulnerable women and children are protected. How can they continue that wonderful work if being a woman means jack shit? And any old troublecausing asshole can self identify as a woman and access those safe spaces?

Penny Mordaunt holds another governmental portfolio - Secretary of State for International Development. There have been calls recently for the creation of single sex, safe spaces for women and girls in the developing world. How can she square this with the possible removal of these very same spaces for British women and girls, which exist for the very same reason, ie male violence?

I'd like to ask Penny Mordaunt - do you appreciate that there are a lot of vulnerable women and girls in the UK who still very much need sex segregated spaces?

Do you appreciate it is not possible to protect these individuals if you throw open those spaces to anyone who identifies into them?

Do you understand that this consultation is leading to a shift in society where people are breaking down barriers which in fact have been put in place to protect people? So changing rooms in shops are going gender neutral, girl guiding has ceased to become single sex, I could go on.

Do you understand that as things stand women's sport is under threat?

I would start by asking her outright if she thought humans can change sex.

When the waffling begins, about gender and blah de blah I would define sex, very simply and press for an answer: sex. Not gender. Sex. Can humans change sex.

She will of course say no (because NOBODY) believes humans can change sex. If she says yes then a small biology lesson perhaps ;) pre GCSE stuff so not hard.

So once we’ve sorted that out I’d go on to the following points:

Women’s sports - I’d ask her if she thinks Amir Khan vs Wladimir Wladimirowitsch Klitschko would have been a fair fight. If not, why not? No of course it’s not fair. Now think of why men and women don’t compete (no penny, low testosterone doesn’t drop you into the same female bracket.) talk about contact sports.

Women’s spaces: why do we have them? What will happen if men are allowed in? Men, not just transwomen - men.

Women’s prisons: there are not enough spaces to safely isolate transwomen in the female estate.

Child safeguarding; what does she think will happen? I’d give examples from Guides for example and remind her that men have, and will, exploit any loophole they can to access victims. And what the public response will be to the first tragedy that happens due to lowered safeguarding.

Then I suppose I’d talk to her about the conflation of sex and gender. About how keeping the EA and reforming GRA/self ID sets up a massive conflict. About the importance of medical gatekeeping.

I’d probably end with asking her what she thinks about the fact that adults, predominantly men are pushing for demedicalisation while simultaneously pushing for medicalisation for children.

I’d talk about puberty blockers. About how dangerous they are. About how irreversible they are and how they set a child on a pathway that really doesn’t have an off ramp. And how suicide stats have been used as leverage because these drugs are so dangerous.

About how society sexualises young girls in particular and about how this plus narrowed stereotypes is leading to an epidemic of child mental health issues.

Will she listen? Goodness knows. Good luck with it Justine.

I reckon half an hour in a nice cafe with a few of the posters here and we could set out our arguments pretty well.

I would ask her if she has thought about how the erosion of sex segregation would affect women from other cultures e.g. Muslim women

Ask her what difference she thinks it will make to take up of cervical smears if we can't be guaranteed a woman to do it.