Why do trans folk need 'extra' rights?

[lurker33]

Imagine a UK without the GRC, and the same equality act as we have now.

Why would trans folk need extra 'rights' over those that the equality act provided?

What rights do trans folk require that they wouldn't already have?

That's one of the question they can never answer.

The right to use of sex segregated spaces provided for the opposite sex tohat they were observed to have at birth

The right to use of sex segregated spaces provided for the opposite sex that they were observed to have at birth

Why do they need that as a right?

So they can prove to themselves they are now that sex class no matter what body they have

Cos it says so on their passport, birth certificate etc ( if they bother to get those changed at all, why would they need to?)

So they can prove to themselves they are now that sex class no matter what body they have

I don't think validation is a good reason to demand that right (which, I'm sure, is the point you are making).

IMO validation is a poor reason to ask for a particular right.

Can anyone give me an example of a right or rights that trans folk wouldn't already have that they actually need?

I would like to know why one group of people feel entitled to more rights than other protected characteristics.

Listening to the TRAs on Ch5 Right stuff earlier, I thought to myself have these people filled in s school application, a SEND form a DWP or tax form? All upsetting and hard work.

I can't see that there are any rights they don't already have now that same sex marriage is legal All EA groups have the same protections from discrimination However sex segregation which are a proprotionate means to achieve a ligitimate aim are perceived as discrimination if people who have transitioned into that swx class aren't included

Good point over 50, and, as others have pointed out, in order to get PIP payments it literally couldn't be more stressful or probing. Why shouldn't they have a bit of form filling. Only yesterday I had to give all my financial details for my daughter's uni loan approval.

The right to protection against discrimination because of being trans (and when undergoing transition) is an important additional right. No-one should be refused a bank account because they are trans, or not allowed to rent a flat because they are trans, for example. These rights exist and are unique to trans people (though everyone is protected from discrimination where someone erroneously believes that they are trans)

Beyond that....I can't think of any, and have never heard anyone articulate anything extra that can genuinely be justified (I'm ignoring the "instant facial hair removal on the NHS" demands, and the new one of "this form is too onerous for me to complete" as utter entitlement)

in order to get PIP payments it literally couldn't be more stressful or probing.

That section of the GRA consultation made me really cross - I've filled out dozens of forms that have been lengthy, intrusive and contained personal information that has been sent to a panel of people who will never meet me but who get to make decisions about me that will have far reaching consequences

Dr Dawn on Ch5 today, pointed out that the NHS clinics offering emotional support are under funded.

I would be happy for the NHS to offer extra MH support to the trans community over physical changes NHS support like surgery.

I would prefer NHS extra funds to be given to a stroke survivor to have speech therapy or womb trans plants funds to be given to biological women.

TBH, I have no idea what rights I, or any of us, have. Whoever we are. I vaguely know there are rights around not being held by the police for longer than ? hours without being charged. Never having been arrested (so far) I haven't tested that. So I am aware of 'negative' rights, like not being subjected to cruel or inhuman treatment by the authorities. But what other, positive, rights do I have? I don't have a right to a bank account. Commercial ventures don't have to provide me with anything as far as I know. Trans people are in with the rest of us in this, no more, no less.

They need the right to validation of what they are not.

Exactly KCP

Amusing deflection from a forum actively campaigning to remove rights and amend the equality act.

The issue isn't trans people demanding lots of mystical special rights, this is about trans people and allies campaigning to stop groups trying to remove the rights they have, especially sex-segregated spaces that allow trans people to the use the facilities they always have.

Thats precisely why GRA reform that merely attempts to make a process less bureaucratic, is endlessly conflated as having a bearing on sex-segregated spaces so transphobes can seek to raise enough hype and support to remove the access enshrined in the 2010 EA.

Its an utterly foolish errand, but seems to take hold amongst a very small vocal minority.

especially sex-segregated spaces that allow trans people to the use the facilities they always have.

Come again?

I thought they want to use the spaces of the opposite sex to the ones the were brought up to use (their own sex)

Regarding adult mental health services - just been informed that the wait time in my area is 7 years.

SEVEN YEARS.

And that children aging out of CAMHS are required to join the exact same wait list as everyone else.

I've filled out dozens of forms that have been lengthy, intrusive and contained personal information that has been sent to a panel of people who will never meet me but who get to make decisions about me that will have far reaching consequences

God yes, I hadn't thought about it this way. My son has special needs. This means a daily diet of jumping through hoops, filling in forms, having things like which school he will attend decided by a panel which I cannot attend, do not know who they are and who are extremely reluctant to respond to a subject access request.

No-one should be discriminated against because they possess one of the protected characteristics. Is my son, in having to jump through these hoops being discriminated against because he is disabled? I think I'd have a pretty hard time arguing that in court. The court would say the Government are entitled gatekeep his access to certain things. They are entitled to make me fill out a eleventy billion page form to get DLA because that (in theory at least) means only eligible people get the DLA.

Now I hate the forms as much as the next parent-of-child-with-special needs. But I don't think I could really say it was discriminatory to make me complete it. Beauracratic, yes; discrimination, not really.

Does a GRC afford easier access to facilities of the opposite sex to one's birth or not? If you make the GRC process a simple self-declaration, does that increase potential access to single sex-spaces to those born of the opposite sex or not? What's the point of even amending the GRA if the GRC makes no legal difference?
Trans people have always been able to use the facilities of the sex they are born as, so I in theory I can't argue with that point. They just seem to be campaigning for un-vetted legal access to the identity and facilities of the opposite sex, which I find troublesome.

GRC gets you the right to change your birth certificate sex.

Passport and driving licence sex can be changed without a GRC.

Nobody can ask to see a GRC, they can ask for a birth certificate to access a sex segregated space or service.

The issue isn't trans people demanding lots of mystical special rights, this is about trans people and allies campaigning to stop groups trying to remove the rights they have

Which rights are people trying to remove from transpeople?

garam especially sex-segregated spaces that allow trans people to the use the facilities they always have. Are you talking about toilets here ? Because I'm not

Does a GRC afford easier access to facilities of the opposite sex to one's birth or not? If you make the GRC process a simple self-declaration, does that increase potential access to single sex-spaces to those born of the opposite sex or not? What's the point of even amending the GRA if the GRC makes no legal difference?
Trans people have always been able to use the facilities of the sex they are born as, so I in theory I can't argue with that point. They just seem to be campaigning for un-vetted legal access to the identity and facilities of the opposite sex, which I find troublesome.

No the GRA has no bearing on sex segregated spaces, literally every trans person will tell you that. Have you ever seen anyone police who enters sex-segregated spaces anywhere in your life?
What makes you think there is a legal process underpinning it when it is entirely unenforceable?

Trans people have always had access to the sex-segregated spaces that match their identity, there has never been a law on the uk books saying otherwise, however that was clarified and strengthened byt he 2010 Equality Act and 'gender reassignment' characteristic that states in legal terms trans women are regarded as female, and trans men as male, as the default position.
Allowing some exemptions in very restricted circumstances on a case by case basis.

Trans people are literally just removing some bureaucratic barrier.

This whole fuss is being stirred up by transphobes, and believed and supported by the uninformed.

Extra rights?

I'm still trying to work out what rights they don't actually have and want, every time I ask a tea I get insulted.