Why do trans folk need 'extra' rights?

[lurker33]

Imagine a UK without the GRC, and the same equality act as we have now.

Why would trans folk need extra 'rights' over those that the equality act provided?

What rights do trans folk require that they wouldn't already have?

Which leads me to conclude that what we need is a strengthening of sex based protections so that trans folk can be legally excluded when necessary. This can only happen if there is an easy way to check the trans status of a person before admission. I'm not talking about toilets here btw.
What are you talking about then? If it is not obvious that is someone is trans why then is there the need to discriminate against them - except on ideological grounds.

Repeal the GRA or at the very least make it legal to ask to see a GRC.
It is legal to ask to ask to see a GRC. But it is not legal to discriminate against trans people (except for a very a narrow exemption). I can't imagine any situation being legal where you don't know a person is trans, but after seeing a GRC you start to discriminate against them.

SarahAr it is not legal to ask to see a grc, it is however fine to ask for a birth certificate which the GRC changes and is all it does. But you can only do that say in interview if you would do that to. Anyone else who. Is not trans

heresy and witchcraft in the second part of your example in a Truely non binary society that would not happen as male objecticsifon of woman would not be a thing as gender would not be a recognised thing

Bless you. Do you believe in the Easter bunny as well?
In all seriousness, male objectification of women has been around since the dawn of time. It is borderline insulting of you to tell me that millenia of male violence against women would disappear with a magic gender wand.

heresyandwitchcraft

Totally beleive in the Easter bunny suspicions of people who do not 😂🐰

You talked about a non binary society but if you don't think it's possible then that's fine. In no way do I think that in 19 lifetimes we will see the stopping of the male objecticsifon of woman or. For that matter trans woman. In no way was my. Post ment to be insulting to. You.

What are you talking about then? If it is not obvious that is someone is trans why then is there the need to discriminate against them - except on ideological grounds.
I can think of a lot of valid reasons for wanting persons of a particular biological sex and not trans people. This includes for example certain job roles where single-sex spaces for therapeutic purposes is desired, or lived experience might be relevant. For example, if there was a male crisis shelter that wanted to exclude females, I think that would be fine. I think prisons should have a blanket natal sex segregation, with separate, special facilities specifically for trans people as required.

Ereshkigal there as never been anything like a honor system in place the laws that cover these spaces have included us for 8 years before that other laws also did.

Technically the law covers biological males who don't pass. In practice it is quite recent that biological males who don't pass who are disrespectful of women have felt empowered to invade women's space. And why women are suddenly noticing.

Bespin
I'm not sure whether we are on the same page at all. My point is that a society with spaces organised around self-identified gender, rather than biological sex, renders all spaces unisex in practice.
The whole reason we have sex segregated spaces is to uphold privacy and dignity. This system works, for the most part. I don't think we should scrap it.
You mix males with females in changing rooms, especially with no vetting process, and it's a recipe for disaster. "Gender" is not going to get rid of the fact that males commit most sexual violence, and the majority of that is directed towards females. I don't want them to have easier access.

heresyandwitchcraft they will not have easier access infact what people propose on here that trans men can use woman's spaces puts woman's spaces more at risk from men who then only have to say there trans men and enter. Men enter woman's spaces all the time they tend. Not to care about the reason when they do it. As. A trans woman I really want to protect these spaces from. Men too as I do not wish to face that same level of violance or assault as you or any other woman.

SarahAr it is not legal to ask to see a grc, it is however fine to ask for a birth certificate which the GRC changes and is all it does. But you can only do that say in interview if you would do that to. Anyone else who. Is not trans

Then how do women's support services apply the very reasonable exemption that they are specifically allowed to exclude biological males, even though they have GRC, from being rape counsellors of women?

Perhaps Sarah can answer as it doesn't seem very joined up at the moment?

they will not have easier access

Notwithstanding that they will, why don't you address the points about privacy and dignity and rendering spaces unisex?

Ereshkigal do. You want the actual answer to this one. The thing thst actually happens in. Real life.

The GRC gets sent to the births and deaths and they do the new certificate end of grc as birth certificate is a legal document.

Right exception with a GRC or the correct bird certificate as it should be called. The advert for the job or service can say does not include trans woman due to exemption under ea. As you are all fond of saying you always know we are trans if someone was felt. To be trans then the organisation as the right to ask that question of them as long as this was done in line with the ea in a way that was demonstrated that it was due to the exception the trans person then would not win a legal challenge of discrimation. In reality someone would have to really want to challenge. This all the way to test it. I don't know what would happen if a trans person who no one knew entered service j guess they would just use it

Ereshkigal why not answer my previous questions first as no one yet as even tried to address them plead. Feel free to have a go.

Men enter woman's spaces all the time they tend. Not to care about the reason when they do it.
I am against any system which makes it easier for them to do this - which I believe self-ID would enable. I've made my points quite clearly, I think. I don't have much to add here, as it sounds you're rehashing old arguments against sex-segregated spaces in the first place. If you don't believe in sex-segregated facilities, or the relevance of biology, then be honest about it. But know that this "gender" logic pushes a unisex agenda.
OP, I am sorry. I do believe this part of the conversation is derailing the original intent of the thread, and isn't adding to the intended question. I think I will politely bow out here.

heresyandwitchcraft sorry if you felt that it's. Late. And bed time. I also don't want a system that allows men easier acsess to womans spaces hence the consultation to make sure that does not happen but it does not. Make them. Safer by removing me from them as well as many on here wan to do.

To be trans then the organisation as the right to ask that question of them as long as this was done in line with the ea in a way that was demonstrated that it was due to the exception the trans person then would not win a legal challenge of discrimation.

And how would they prove they were telling the truth? Do you think the exemptions are for fun? Why exactly do you thi

*Why you think they were included? Why not let all GRA holding bio males into women's spaces?

The issue isn't trans people demanding lots of mystical special rights, this is about trans people and allies campaigning to stop groups trying to remove the rights they have, especially sex-segregated spaces that allow trans people to the use the facilities they always have.

People who assert that they are starting gender reassignment are entitled to use whichever facility they choose.
A rather bizarre special right that has caused many problems over the years. Adding Self ID to the gender reassignment category rights has recently been adopted as a result of transgender advocates providing fraudulent lists of the protected categories.
The effort appears to be of creating a special class of people, gender reassigned, who must never be told no.

Ereshkigal why not answer my previous questions first as no one yet as even tried to address them plead. Feel free to have a go.

I'm not interested in your questions. You're the one who was answering cherry picking questions.

Ereshkigal in no way do I think there fun I have had to change a job role due to them which I was happy to do as I did not wish to be in conflict with people and it was the correft thing to do. This was worked out before any need to take legal action and was done in cooperation with my hr department.

Adding Self ID to the gender reassignment category rights has recently been adopted as a result of transgender advocates providing fraudulent lists of the protected categories

Yes, great point.

thebewilderness

See last. Post were I was effecrly told no due to current legislation. And was fine as it was correct

Ereshkigal well its a shame your not as then we might be able to discuss things I'm interested in your questions I have answered many on threads to show that people do have other views on this I don't ask you to change yours just that I also have my view

Was that recent Bespin?

SarahAr is gnashing their teeth at you, you've destroyed their glib "anyone can ask to see a GRA" platitude.

This was in 2014 I think I've had a few jobs since then and was the reason I came away from service user lead work for a while but realised I did miss it.

I am sorry if anyone is upset by my posts I just put what is my reality down if people don't like it I can not stop that. But it does not change how things happened or do happen. There is a. Lot. Of people on here on both sides that don't really know how these things are used and I can only. Give my examples and there maybe others that conflict with that