Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

The mother of Tom Daley's child

999 replies

Pratchet · 01/07/2018 09:27

Congratulations on a healthy baby! Hope the birth went safely and that you are recovering well.

I just hate surrogacy in case you can't tell

OP posts:
CosmicCanary · 01/07/2018 10:19

This thread is basically a homophobic attack on a couple who love each other and love their child.

Why you lying?

There is not 1 homophobic attack on here that I can see but if you think there is report the post.

53rdWay · 01/07/2018 10:19

Sealioning: see this cartoon

knowyourmeme.com/photos/873260-sea-lioning

C8H10N4O2 · 01/07/2018 10:19

Stop living in the dark ages and behind a judgmental mask.

Stop tying commercial exploitation of women to homophobia. This is about the use of mostly poorer women by those with money. The deliberate circumvention of UK surrogacy laws speaks volumes.

EveningHare · 01/07/2018 10:19

so the sea lion has heard a negative comment and is asking for a source/backup

google tells me
Sealioning (also spelled sea-lioning and sea lioning) is a type of trolling or harassment which consists of pursuing people with persistent requests for evidence or repeated questions. The harasser who uses this tactic also uses fake civility so as to discredit their target.

I'm on the fence on this one, surely if someone states something, then they should be able to back it up? how is it trolling if the original poster wont/cant do it? unless they haven't answered it

back to the original subject, i didn't see as many outcries on the same level when Caprice was having her surrogate (the main conversation there was how odd it was that she became pregnant just after as well)

Loads of celebrities have used surrogates, wheres the outcry on that?
www.parents.com/parenting/celebrity-parents/moms-dads/celebrities-who-used-surrogates/

EveningHare · 01/07/2018 10:20

How do you know that? you're reading something in to it that that you want to read? It doesnt say medical or technical it says 'those' - everyone is included

Er yes - that proves my point
"Those" is plural and non- specific. 0nly one person carried and gave birth to this child- the mother.

Er no, she didnt do it on her own, she had help....

LadyMetroland · 01/07/2018 10:20

This isn't politically correct, but how awful to grow up knowing that you have a mummy, but yours only had you for money and isn't there to love and hold you each day.

I've got no doubt the baby will be loved but not having a mummy is just so sad.

And how sad that the baby presumably won't have months of breastfeeding and closeness and will instead be flown back to the UK thousands of miles from the woman who carried him for 9 months.

PippaPepperpot · 01/07/2018 10:20

Its nothing to do with homophobia. Those who disagree with commercial surrogacy have the same conversations whether the couple is homosexual or heterosexual. Trying to silence opinion by shouting bigotry is a common tactic.

LapsedHumanist · 01/07/2018 10:22

It was a US surrogate in this case MrsSnootyPants. Precisely because commercial surrogacy is illegal in the UK.

Get your facts straight before you go bandying about accusations of homophobia.

Commercial surrogacy is a horrific trend. Doesn’t matter if the parents are same sex, differentsex or a polyamourous non-binary quad. This is about money and power, not about sexual orientation.

C8H10N4O2 · 01/07/2018 10:22

In the UK, paying a surrogate is illegal

You can pay the surrogate expenses to a reasonably generous degree. This is to allow costs for the surrogate without commercial exploitation for altruistic surrogacy. Seems like a good idea to me.

MrsJayy · 01/07/2018 10:23

Many women formula feed their babies I don't think we need to be over emotional about breadt feeding and mummy love I am sure the baby will be loved and cared for.

crunchymint · 01/07/2018 10:23

Look they bought their baby from the mother. No I don't think buying and selling babies should be allowed however loving the couple.

PippaPepperpot · 01/07/2018 10:25

How did the UK law of paying a surrogate's expenses make it difficult for them?

Badgerthebodger · 01/07/2018 10:26

Not a homophobic attack at all. It shocks me that people are so desperate to look progressive and woke that they are prepared to ignore the revolting undercurrents of a situation like this. Kim K exactly the same, it’s not about their sexuality at all

They went to the US because UK surrogacy laws were too restrictive. Whether or not the woman is delighted to have been a surrogate, they have paid for a woman’s body and bought a baby. This absolutely sickens me.

Finally, I cannot imagine why it is considered a good thing to take a newborn from its mother. I do not think this is in any way the best thing for a child, unless the mother has serious issues which mean she is unable to care for that child.

Floorplan · 01/07/2018 10:26

What a quick moving thread. Yes I agree with two other posters- adoption is different. Sometimes the most selfless act of motherhood is giving a child up for adoption. Planning is the difference.

All the time molecular biology is picking up new information about how the mother and neonate communicate, not just verbally or physically but biochemically. Breast milk has been found to contain microRNAs which are basically genetic products which modify gene expression.
A baby recognises it's mothers voice in the womb. It is possible her smell is in printed in some way. These are positive things for a baby which were deliberately deprived.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 01/07/2018 10:27

Presumably the surrogate is UK based.

No. They very publically avoided using a U.K. based surrogate because they didn’t like the U.K. laws around surrogacy.

Neither of them seem to have stopped for a second to think about the reasons why commercial surrogacy might not be legal here.

ballsballsballs · 01/07/2018 10:28

I have major problems with all commercial surrogacy. It's exploiting women's bodies.

LassWiADelicateAir · 01/07/2018 10:29

Er no, she didnt do it on her own, she had help....

Spectacularly missing the point as well as reducing her to just one of the team.

MargaretCavendish · 01/07/2018 10:29

It’s so disgustingly end game capitalism to pay a poor woman to have a baby for you because babies are cute so that’s nicer for YOU than adopting someone who is living in care.

How many children have you adopted?

I also have really deep ethical doubts about surrogacy, but the 'infertile people should just adopt and if they don't they're narcissists' argument is both ignorant and cruel.

LapsedHumanist · 01/07/2018 10:30

That’s interesting Floorplan.

IWannaSeeHowItEnds · 01/07/2018 10:30

I didn't realise the baby was from a US surrogate. That does put a different slant on it for me. Possibly they haven't thanked the woman directly because if she is in the US, she was very well paid and they are viewing it as a commercial transaction, given the baby has no genetic link to her. I think there are issues with this if the woman felt she had no real choice due to dire economic need, but there is no way to establish this. Perhaps we should insist that Brits use only British surrogates, which is properly regulated.

I put 'mother' rather than mother because I don't believe you really are a mother if you conceive using a donated egg and are having the baby for somebody else. You are a gestational carrier. The person who donated the egg is the closest thing the baby has to a mother. Now I agree there are inherent problems with the child not being given information about who its' true genetic parents are. That should be the child's right and not the right of the fathers to withold that knowledge.

NotAnotherNoughtiesTune · 01/07/2018 10:30

I'm not really keen on surrogacy unless doing it for a long term friend or family member - but I do hope the mother's is doing well and no matter what the baby is happy. That's what matters most.

pandamodium · 01/07/2018 10:31

I don't like surrogacy. I can't describe my feelings eloquently so I won't.

Nothing to do with homophobia, I'm not heterosexual myself.

All that aside, this isn't a happy relationship. There's been loads in the press about cheating on both sides.

LangCleg · 01/07/2018 10:31

So if that poor woman had a baby and it somehow ended up in care, you wouldn’t want that one, because it hasn’t been expressly created with you in mind? So that baby can stay in a children’s home for the rest of its life, cos you want a shiny new one. Doesn’t sound like loving parents to me. Sounds like self obsessed wankers who see having a baby as a treat for their gigantic egos.

Preach!

Aeroflotgirl · 01/07/2018 10:33

I hear people talking about the poor woman, what about the mother, she is just as complicit as they are, she did it for money, I understand they pay well in the US. For many commercial surrogates, it is just a business transaction.

LassWiADelicateAir · 01/07/2018 10:33

I put 'mother' rather than mother because I don't believe you really are a mother if you conceive using a donated egg and are having the baby for somebody else. You are a gestational carrier.

You are a gestational carrier - you have albeit unwittingly, exactly identified what is wrong with this.

Swipe left for the next trending thread