The mother of Tom Daley's child

[Pratchet]

Congratulations on a healthy baby! Hope the birth went safely and that you are recovering well.

I just hate surrogacy in case you can't tell

Do you know for a fact there was a payment given?

I agree with pratchet, that statement would have been appropriate.

I could just about go with altruistic surrogacy between close family members eg sisters, but I would still be very uncomfortable if my DD's did it, there are so many things that could go wrong, it would be beyond sad if a family were torn apart by it.

Ugh that thank you is disgusting 'those who helped'? Fuck off with that

And thank you to those who helped make our dream of having a family into this wonderful reality.”

"Those who helped" can mean the medical team who extracted , stored and implanted the egg, the pre-natal team and the doctors and midwives at the delivery oh and I suppose the mother.

Floorplan: The baby was both deprived of its mother and abandoned by its mother. That this happened was planned. I consider that to be child abuse

oh dear

A simple "thank you to the wonderful woman who carried this child" would have been something.

And thank you to those who helped turn our dream of having a family into this wonderful reality from the news report tweet - is that not a thank you?

No, I don't think the surrogate is thick. I don't think page three models and prostitutes are thick either, or teenage girls who send pouty selfies. It's called class exploitation. All choices are made in a context. Class exploitation is the context.

People's inability to think beyond the level of the individual always astounds me.

In Victorian times, they would have been saying "That boy might have enjoyed climbing chimneys for all you know! And anyway, he bought his sister a bowl of gruel she wouldn't otherwise have had. Are you trying to starve his sister, you patronising fools?"

Do you know for a fact there was a payment given?

Yes - they've been quite explicit that they did this in the US because commercial surrogacy isn't legal in the UK.

It is clear that this was a commercial arrangement because Tom's husband gave interviews stating that they had to go to the US because UK surrogacy laws were too draconian in not allowing commercial surrogacy.

"Hysteria"? Why is any concern about the welfare of women, particularly when expressed by women called "hysteria"?

The baby was both deprived of its mother and abandoned by its mother. That this happened was planned. I consider that to be child abuse.
And I'm assuming it's also considered child abuse when a baby never gets to see its father because mum decides that she isn't putting him on the birth certificate to make it difficult for him to go through proper channels?

Whatever people's personal feelings are towards surrogacy, deciding that the absence of a parent is child abuse sounds inflammatory.

I do think the coverage has erased the mother of the child and that it's ridiculous to be claiming gay couple had a baby.

In terms of surrogacy, for me it depends on the circumstances and without knowing the circumstances then i'm wary of passing judgement.

Ugh that thank you is disgusting 'those who helped'? Fuck off with that

Why is that disgusting? Its a simple understated thank you and thats all it needs

Re adoption. Are you suggesting mothers are paid to give up their child for adoption.

Plenty of gay men hate the idea of surrogacy too btw.

I also get very annoyed when this is dismissed as homophobia - rich women like KK doing it make me even crosser though she did at least acknowledge her surrogate. But having been through it twice before and not wanting to go through it all again she then thinks it's fine to pay someone else to do it for her. No different than paying the nanny, the cook, the cleaner etc.

How do any of you know that the woman wanted to have her surrogacy and the part she played paraded around in the press? I have to say pregnancy for me wasn't a particularly big deal (it was the actual becoming a parent that was significant). I can't imagine anything worse than being talked about in the press if I was a surrogate and I'd probably specifically have asked not to be. No doubt you'd deny me that right!

Is there some sea-lioning going on here?

What about women for whom the money is an incentive to be a surrogate? For me personally (and this is purely hypothetical) I have no desire to have children of my own. But for the right price I’d happily rent out my womb. Nine months of pregnancy for me would be a necessary inconvenience to get a lump sum at the end (although I’d probably insist on half up front). The financial reward would motivate me rather than the altruism if I’m honest. How do you know there aren’t other women who feel the same? I don’t feel it’s exploitative if it’s a truly a free choice (and we have no evidence that the surrogate in this case didn’t make a free, informed choice)

My husband thanked the team who did my caeserean- admittedly not in public but in the hospital. Is there a father anywherr who doesn't thank the midwives and doctors?

The problem with commercial exploitation of women's bodies is that its near impossible to separate out free consent from pressured consent unless there is a clear altruistic link between the surrogate and the adoptive parents.

Exploitation of women for surrogacy purposes is a sizeable commercial business which relies largely on poorer women whilst the profits benefit those further up the chain.

Pretty much like most exploitation of women.

This was commercial surrogacy, they paid a woman in the US to do this, having given interviews bemoaning the fact that UK surrogacy laws are too strict. And there are many concerns in the US about low income women being exploited in this way.

Yes. Vile.

I do wonder what would happen if there were complications during labour which caused serious disability in the child. Presumably the couple ordering the child would accept and love it regardless.

Like others on this thread I disagree with commercial surrogacy. Having a child is not a human right. And there are so very many children already in existence who are waiting to be adopted.

Soupdragon I consider adoption to be different because it's not planned, as such. No one chooses to get pregnant to give their child up for adoption. Adoption occurs because the birth parents are unable or unwilling to care for a child. And no money is exchanged.

I find the “outsourcing” of gestation, particularly to developing world countries, very problematic.

One of the Iain M. Banks novels, the Player of Games, takes place in a society where reproduction involves three participants. The highest status participant provides the seed, the mid status participant provides the egg and a much lower status participant gestates the offspring. Some of the power dynamics of that situation are examined in the novel (it’s a very brutal and authoritarian society.

Like pp, I have no ethical problems with altruistic surrogacy but commercial surrogacy is yet more commodification of bodies based on sex. Given some of the power structures around money/access to education and skills, especially in the developing world, it makes the Handmaid’s Tale look positively quaint and pastoral.

whats sea-lioning?

what do you think of adoptions where the child is given up at birth?

It's a tragedy and can leave deep scars for both the mother and the baby (ever seen Long Lost Family?). Sometimes it is done for the protection of the baby ie when the mother is trapped in a cycle of drug addiction and prostitution.

Buying designer babies is different.

It is brutally separating them by design.