The mother of Tom Daley's child

[Pratchet]

Congratulations on a healthy baby! Hope the birth went safely and that you are recovering well.

I just hate surrogacy in case you can't tell

@peakpants I do find this interesting.

I have spoken to quite literally hundreds of adoptees over the years.
Some have had fairly easy going lives, but not one that I have ever been in contact with has not wished their circumstances hadn't been different.

Gariguette it might suit your circumstances to pretend that mothers are expendable but it doesn't make it true.

Garriguette

Mothers are not necessarily better parents throughout the life of a child. My mother is fantastic with babies not so good when I was older than 5. I found my father to be the more emphatic parent, it does not mean I did not benefit from having her.

I wonder who is getting up in the middle of the night to make the feeds? Change the nappies? A nanny? A woman?

Very interesting question, and I think the answer is yes and yes.

@CosmicCanary

Many woman are crap parents. Many men are crap parents. No one stops them from having children.

Possessing a functioning uterus and overies does not give you the right to decide how other people have families.

@peakpants I also have said I'm of the opinion that all surrogacy and sperm/egg donation is wrong.

Even if only 1% of surrogate babies experienced trauma, that's too many.
As I've said earlier, no child should be created to bear pain so you don't have to.

In a country where there is no state health insurance or social security, I wonder what type of women see surrogacy as a good career option...

...bet there's loads of professional middle class women just queuing up to sell their babies.

It's exploitation. Its buying a baby.

And if you do this you know this ESPECIALLY when you are aware the laws in your own country are much stricter and you dislike them because you can't get what you want easily enough.

It's consciously seeing your baby as a commodity.

I think one of the best examples of obvious trauma due to lack of biological origins is the Radfords. Both parents are adopted and are currently on baby 21/22 (I can't remember exactly). The consequences have been huge for them and their children.

It's an extreme example and not exactly the same as surrogacy but you only have to watch the clips of Noel, a man in his forties, breaking down over feelings of abandonment to see that biology still means a lot to people.

Some have had fairly easy going lives, but not one that I have ever been in contact with has not wished their circumstances hadn't been different.

Well yes, but adoption often comes with traumatic circumstances surrounding it, often where the birth parents were unable to care for the child. It also need to be measured whether the trauma comes from early life experiences of abuse and neglect or whether it comes from removal from the birth family. It is possible to wish your circumstances had been different but still be happy and well-adjusted. As I said before, the alternative in the case of adoption is usually abuse, neglect or long-term foster care.

53rdway: just read your post - so sorry to hear what you are going through. God it's painful. How are you doing?

Interesting-totally unsurprising- that TRA support baby purchase

Who's the TRA?

Is the 'mother' becoming a sort of hate-figure? That's what I'm picking up.

Not you peak

Is the 'mother' becoming a sort of hate-figure?

Why is MN looked on with contempt?

Wow I can't believe the negative comments here!

It could be that the surrogate wishes to remain anonymous? Very judgmental.

Someone I know was a surrogate recently for friends who have tried but could not conceive even with ivf.

She has given the most precious gift to a couple who will be loving caring parents.

Whether in a gay, straight, lesbian relationship, if there is a way to become a loving, good parent, then I think it is wonderful.

Not you peak

okay, just checking! I don't support buying babies anyway, but I do know a few lesbian couples who have had IVF babies and some who have adopted and they have the most lovely and well-adjusted kids (in my personal view- maybe that will all change when they are older...).

Gariguette I am horrified by your post suggesting you think it’s bad the use of Indian surrogates was banned for overseas customers. I will use the word customers because that’s what they are, not parents, is an absolute disgrace.

If you think breeding women is a good resolution to female poverty in the world, you clearly lack any knowledge of humanitarian issues, female rights and are just absolute plain evil.
A disgusting, pathetic, unepathetic narcissist. A real Man respects women’s rights.

You aren’t fit to raise a child with a disgusting attitude, and sadly as you have boys you will probably raise them to view women the way you do, a means to an end.

A baby isn't a gift. It is a living human being with rights of its own. And really? You can't understand why there are negative comments about commercial surrogacy, a practice that many governments have concerns over and several countries have banned due to the exploitation involved?

@peakpants as I said earlier, mine didn't and was still very traumatic.
In the case of adoption there's not another option, once the child has been relinquished, that would cause less lifelong suffering for the child.
It's a cop out to say the circumstances surrounding adoption rather than the biological separation is the issue, when it's been proven time and time again that maternal deprivation is catastrophic to children, regardless of circumstance.

The case with surrogacy is that you are purposely causing this trauma for personal gain, and the expense of a child's wellbeing.
That is never, ever okay.

Sorry that was to binky.

Yes saying a baby is a gift, is another way of saying it is a commodity. A commodity that can be given away or bought. The baby is being treated like a commodity, but that is very wrong.

@binkyblinky yuck. Be grateful for your naivety.
The attitude that a child is a gift to be given is appalling.
Shall I gift you a slave to do your housework for your next birthday?
Or do you recognise autonomy in adults?

@Materialist

Yes, it's all a conspiracy, millennia in the planning, to impoverish women so that men can hire surrogates. We'll just all ignore that most surrogacies are initiated by women.