The mother of Tom Daley's child

[Pratchet]

Congratulations on a healthy baby! Hope the birth went safely and that you are recovering well.

I just hate surrogacy in case you can't tell

53rdWay .

Gariguette

You have made your views on women very clear. Is there much more point you being on this thread. I really doubt there are any posters who will side with you after your lovely post earlier.

It's a cop out to say the circumstances surrounding adoption rather than the biological separation is the issue, when it's been proven time and time again that maternal deprivation is catastrophic to children, regardless of circumstance.

I am not sure it necessarily has been proven conclusively that it's maternal deprivation rather than e.g. being neglected, left in your nappy for a whole day, nobody responding when you cry, being shaken, being thrown, being beaten. Yes, that is maternal deprivation but the deprivation is actually of love and care, something that can feasibly be provided by someone who did not gestate the child, as long as there is consistency and stability. I don't see how it is possible to attribute trauma suffered by adopted children solely to being separated from their mothers when nearly all of them in this country will also have been abused or neglected.

It really confuses me when seemingly literate adults with internet access express 'shock' 'horror' or 'surprise' that other people may have opinions about the ethical implications of a practice like surrogacy. One even popped up yesterday to say that she was seriously considering surrogacy and had no idea that anyone had an issue with it. I wonder how much serious research somebody could have done on such a important issue to have never heard a negative opinion about it. Talk about willful blindness.

Gariguette Your contempt for women is truly appalling. Truly appalling. Your sons are only here because a woman gave them both life.

If you raise your sons to be the same as you, with the same complete disregard for women then you will only be sowing the seed for the most destructive and damaging relationship with them.

They will be surrounded by nurturing women from school teachers to aunties to the lady that helps them pick up their toy teddy in the supermarket and has the most lovely twinkling eyes. Far from hating women they will be mythical thanks to you. Your dc will grow into young adults and see you for what you are. At that point you risk losing them forever.

My father was just like you, and guess what I haven't spoken to him for ten years, and nor am I likely to ever again.

Your little boys will soon have minds their own, and when that happens watch out buddy. Karma finds it own way of settling scores and you are already on a negative rating.

Luna I get the impression people sometimes see it as easy as shopping.

Cant have a child lets buy one instead all the celebs do it so it cant be wrong kind of attitude.

You're not really confused, LunaTrap, are you? I thought they were just using a figure of speech. But then...

@peakpants as I said, I suffered neither neglect or abuse.
Was relinquished by professionals as I was born at the wrong time for their careers.
No substance, alcohol abuse or poor mental health.

Yet I had BPD as a result of separation trauma and severe separation anxiety diagnosed by several different health professionals independently of each other.

For 15 years I cried every night for the birth mother I didn't have, despite living a comfortable middle class existence with loving adoptive parents. I can tell you that I know that being separated from my biological parents certainly caused me immeasurable pain.

This does not correlate to what you are saying at all.

Far from allowing the disgraceful posts from Gariguette to derail the thread, lets just just consider the surrogate mother in the middle of this. I am sending a prayer to her.
I can't imagine how she must be feeling in the centre of this shit storm. I wonder if she even imagined how difficult it was all going to be. The nine months creating life, the tacky insta photos of Tom plus one with the revolting plastic baby bottles nor the sheer contempt for the situation they have put her in.

If you are reading this, we are certainly not judging you. We loathe the situation you have found yourself in, but we support your recovery from pregnancy and birth one hundred per cent. We KNOW it wasn't easy, we know the pressures of pregnancy and the pain of birth and everything you have been through.

@Broadbeans - I am not naive in the slightest! I am so thankful that I have been able to have two amazing children. And I feel sad for those who are unable to do so.

my post was perhaps worded wrong, I meant that if I had the power to gift parenthood to another who cannot, then I would do so.

How on Earth you can liken that to slavery is unbelievable.

it's all a conspiracy, millennia in the planning, to impoverish women so that men can hire surrogates

Thanks for defining the patriarchy for us. I mean, this is Feminism so we had it down but it's always nice when new people have a go

Gariguette it might suit your circumstances to pretend that mothers are expendable but it doesn't make it true.

Well said. Gariguette, we see you and your misogyny. Everyone does.

Gariguette You sound homophobic to me so I have reported you.

We'll just all ignore that most surrogacies are initiated by women.

If I sell my baby I'll be able to afford for health insurance, or simply food for my other kids. Maybe I'll even have a bit left over to buy a few pictures Christmas presents.

And because this is the only way I'll be able to afford this, this is me 'initating' the surrogacy.

This is just more sanitising of language as a means to justify the practice and so you don't have to see the exploitation of women with few opportunities in life because society shits on them.

To you it's just 'market forces' not desparation for basic needs.

Over and over again you'll see the sanitisation of language. Once you start to see people doing it to justify themselves, it's really telling about just how narrow their world is and how they are blind to the misfortune and lack of opportunities that others are born into.

The idea that there is an 'equality of choice' when it comes to buying babies for cash is fucking laughable.

Why are you still here Gariguette? The only thing you've contributed to this discussion is misogyny. I guess it's annoying for you to discover there's something you can't buy, such as women's obedience.

@CertainHalfDesertedStreets

The idea that there is an 'equality of choice' when it comes to buying babies for cash is fucking laughable.

This.

So your dad is gay? Wow, that must have been interesting.

Is that the only facet of your personality? Wow, that must be uninteresting.

@binkyblinky Tom and Lance paid for the child.
Buying rights - in this case parental - over another living person is in my view tantamount to slavery.
Read up thread for several people who grew up without their genetic parents for views on how traumatic this can be.

You are indeed very naive if you can't see why people would have an issue with surragacy, even if you don't personally agree.

I am not naive in the slightest! I am so thankful that I have been able to have two amazing children. And I feel sad for those who are unable to do so.

my post was perhaps worded wrong, I meant that if I had the power to gift parenthood to another who cannot, then I would do so.

She thinks you're naive because, despite lots of people here describing the trauma of growing up without your mother, you continue to see only the point of view of the parents and not that of the child in the surrogacy.

Naive is...charitable tbh.

@certainhalfdesertedstreets

I was grinning at your earlier post, but have another for your last

Broadbeans that must indeed be very traumatic and those circumstances are quite unusual. It is extremely rare for people to give a child up for adoption these days, given the existence of abortion (apart from NI or RoI of course). I think I would also struggle hugely to come to terms with that, if there was not a 'reason' per se for the adoption. It is very very differently to the vast majority of adopted kids in the UK though. Their trauma very much comes from early abuse and neglect and believe it or not, SS do not remove children from birth very often at all. Having worked in the area of child protection, I cannot see any other way around it and I take my hats off to the couples who adopt- they are heroes.

Gariguette

What happened to you in your life to make you hate women so much? Was your own mother abusive?

I firmly believe that shit/abusive mothers are not the default. Most mothers are loving, nurturing and protective - its in our nature to be that way with our kids - they start life as a part of us after all. I'm sorry a woman hurt you but don't take it out on all womankind.

Also Gariguette out of interest, was it just a happy coincidence that your children were not of the gender you so despise, or did you use sex selection as well as a surrogate?