The mother of Tom Daley's child

[Pratchet]

Congratulations on a healthy baby! Hope the birth went safely and that you are recovering well.

I just hate surrogacy in case you can't tell

Thanks, It's not like I think about it a huge amount these days but I am aware of how these things shape you at a very basic level.

Gift? She got paid.

Minecraft
Struggling to believe you

@crunchymint

It would depend on the situation.

If I were raised by my genetic mother, I don’t think I’d care much about the woman who surrogated/birthed me. I’d already have my real mother.

But in a situation where I wasn’t raised by any/both genetic parents... I imagine I would care about the missing genetic mother, not the genetic father (I don’t have one in my life anyway and it’s never bothered me).

In the situation of TD’s kid, I think I would want to know which of them was my genetic father, and I also think I would want to know the genetic mother in some way.

Re people saying it's fine to deliberately create a baby to be removed from its mother, isn't there s lot of research regarding the importance of the time with mother post birth- recognized heart beat, voice etc. My friend's DM's mother died when her DM was 4 days old, she had wonderful care etc but now @70 is suffering v much and a number of HP's have identified this early experience/lack of, as the cause and she's now undergoing therapy. It's not a popular view on here but a mother really isn't so easily replaced, not because it's the 1950's either (the usual comment).

As a pp said adoption is unplanned etc. I had never thought of all the issues re surrogacy tbh, interesting thread. I hope the men have been involved with the surrogate and have informed themselves on the best possible way to go now that the baby is in their sole care.

Floorplan why are you struggling to believe Minecraft was a surrogate for her friends, it seems to happen a lot, I keep reading about it happening. Alturistic surrogacy that is.

I agree what my sis did was of course for family and of course she wasn't paid. It's true in the future my niece is going to find out when she is older that my sister carried her.

Just wanted to highlight the good sides to surrogacy too as it's changed our lives as a family in the best way imaginable.

I guess my good experience has probably given me rose tinted specs when it comes to the subject matter. I know there is inevitably a darker side which I'm probably a bit ignorant to

I'm adopted and I miss my birth mother, though I never knew her.
I do know she's dead and have had some contact with her family but I'm not sure about it, I'm not rejecting them as such but it's all a bit can of worms.
I have a teenager who has never known her Dad, (his choice), but for the past couple of years has had a relationship with his family who love her and I see how beneficial it's been for her.

I have to idea if this couple have plans to stay in touch with the surrogate, but not telling their child who his biological Dad is, is cruel and selfish, and tells .e all I need to know about their attitude towards getting what they want.
Ugh, they make me feel sick.

Some people seem to be forgetting that the baby will be remaking with one of it’s biological parent

That’s not the point as far as the ‘primal wound’ trauma goes. It’s the mother that’s ‘known’ to the baby.

I think hope it's an egotistical thing wrt knowing who father is, but I'd hope that privately they'll find out, for all the reasons mentioned. And if not, they'd hardly deny their child if they wanted to know for themselves. It might be one of those v obvious children who's the image of their father tho and that'll be that.

We know from adoption that separation from one's birth mother can be deeply traumatic for many people. Planning to do this from the outset seems terribly cruel to me, as does the "we decided not to know who the biological father is" stuff. Denying this information to a child simply because you think it'll be better for your relationship with your partner is selfish in the extreme.

On another note, I always wonder what happens as the child gets older and observable likenesses appear. Does everyone keep up the pretense that "we don't know who the biological father is" when the child is an actual Tom Daley Mini-Me?

It is homophobic to say same sex couples shouldn’t have children
I think you need some help.

It’s not homophobic- it’s an impossibility!!!

In order to have a baby there has to be something from a man - usually called a sperm. There has to be something from a woman - an egg.
So this means that, without the assistance of another party a gay couple cannot have a child together. They cannot have a child which is solely the genetic material of the two of them like I can with my husband ( I am female). So therefore it’s not homophobic to say that a gaycouplecannot have a child. It’s a biological fact.

There have been some really good comments on this thread.

Ultimately what has stuck out for me is that a person should not be allowed under any circumstances to sell another human being. If a baby is bought and sold how is that any different to the slave trade? The baby- like a slave- has no say in this matter. They are simply being grown and sold fir cold hard cash. Simply because a wealthy gay couple want a baby does not mean they should be able to go and buy one.
I’m not on the fence anymore. I’m against it. It’s wrong on every level.

yorkshire just out of interest what about lesbian couples having babies? Is that different because it's just sperm that is needed?

Your post seems to be saying that no homosexual couples should ever have kids because it's 'not natural'.

As I said, I'm on the fence about it all.

Due to Biology Lesbians can have a child with only a few minutes worth of contribution from a man, they are not asking a woman ( or paying her) to carry a child for 9 months, give birth to it and then effectively “sell” it to them. If they were doing that I would be against that too.
It’s the inequality of it in most cases, a richer couple paying a poorer woman to rent her body.
The sexuality of the couple is irrelevant for me, straight, Gay, lesbian, Bi or anything else - it’s treating a child as a commodity and/or a right

Quite how saying it is immoral to buy a child equates to homophobia is utterly beyond me.

Good luck to them and good luck to the surrogate. I've no idea what the fees are but I would imagine in the US they are significant. If no one is being exploited then why should I be able to tell someone else what they should or shouldn't do with their body.

There are plenty of bad parents in the world that keep their kids, it takes more than giving birth to be a good mother in my opinion, and plenty of kids who have no idea who their biological father is or believe it is the wrong person, cope just fine when raised by loving parents.

moonkissed
I think that commercial surrogacy is wrong, that’s what I’m not on the fence about anymore.

I know it’s going to go down like a lead balloon but I -personally, not asking anyone else to think it- think that a baby needs it’s mother more than it’s father. So, when lesbians have a baby one of them is the mother, so the baby is not deprived of what it needs. They usually get the sperm of somebody they know and there’s no buying and selling involved. No rent -a -womb. I am coming to the belief that two men cannot compensate for a mother. I’m sure two gay men love the child a huge ammount but I do think there is more of a bond between mother and child than father and child in their early years which is down to the fact that the mothers body made this little person, carried it and gave birth to it.
If we had no men and a huge bank of sperm we could still have babies.
If we had no women but lots of eggs then there would be no more babies.
In life you can’t always have it all. And I think buying people - even ones which you have had made especially for you- is very very wrong.

Just because somebody is in a position to pay for a baby doesn't mean they will be amazing parents.

Yes I know hoppinggreen

I was mostly just questioning this part of yorkshires post:

In order to have a baby there has to be something from a man - usually called a sperm. There has to be something from a woman - an egg.
So this means that, without the assistance of another party a gay couple cannot have a child together. They cannot have a child which is solely the genetic material of the two of them like I can with my husband ( I am female). So therefore it’s not homophobic to say that a gaycouplecannot have a child. It’s a biological fact.

Which seemed to be saying that no couple gay or lesbian should have kids.

Sorry x posted there a bit.

Surrogacy appalls me. When rich women start having babies for poor couples you can ask me to revise my views

I agree. Women have fought for hundreds of years to be considered as more than just the empty vessels for the convenience of men to produce heirs.

Now it's happening all over again, under the guise of being "progressive."

When rich women start having babies for poor couples you can ask me to revise my views

well see earlier in thread, its apparently commenplace

I think at some point it will become quite apparent which one the biological father is, I saw an interview with Neil Patrick Harris saying he and his partner doesn't know which child is his biologically and which one is biologically his husbands, but one look at those kids tells you which one is which!

Just because somebody is in a position to pay for a baby doesn't mean they will be amazing parents.

Indeed.

I think the poster who said have you ever known a rich woman have a surrogate child for others has nailed it for me regarding the ethics of this 'consumer exchange'.