WPUK Brighton Meeting: Turning the Tide

[PlonitbatPlonit]

Tickets now available to hear Kathleen Stock, Helen Saxby, Gill Smith and Ruth Serwotka in Brighton on 16 July

www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/a-womans-place-is-turning-the-tide-tickets-47592125328

Helen Saxby's blog notthenewsinbriefs.wordpress.com/

Article by Gill Smith www.transgendertrend.com/lesbian-detransitioner-must-question-primary-solution/

Kathleen Stock's blog medium.com/@kathleenstock

Article by Ruth Serwotka morningstaronline.co.uk/article/why-do-we-need-new-womens-movement

Transphobia IS as hateful as racism and homophobia

Agreed

Although apparently if you are considered transphobic you are under the 3 strikes and out rule

Not so for racism or homophobia

Kathleen Stock's notes for her talk given last night:

medium.com/@kathleenstock/notes-for-my-talk-to-a-womans-place-uk-brighton-17th-july-2018-f1b607414119

twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1019156352688640000

I think in 20yrs time people will be a lot clearer on the homophobia apparent in a lot of areas of the TA movement.

And daim - you know in the Handmaid's Tale - Serena Joy campaigns for the changes that end up horribly oppressing her too? Take note.

Daimbars you didn't have a chat with the 'blonde' checking people in. We were really busy and I checked you in (not blonde) the most the 'blonde' would have said to you is that the toilets are on the right. You may have had a chat with the woman checking in at the same time as you, who shared your name. And you really did look like you were smelling a fart.

I've just read Dr Stock's notes from her speech and it was nuanced, balanced and fair.

How on earth was all you got out of it "Her main message was 'I'm not kind and I don't give a fuck'. Nothing new there", Daim? Do you often struggle with nuance?

I think the answer must be yes, if all you have is the threat that women concerned about women and children will be on the "wrong side of history". What that tells me is that you're quite looking forward to an authoritarian silencing of your opponents, which is pretty dark. History is written by the winners - and the winners aren't always the righteous. It's not a good look (also, it's really a threat. But I think you get that).

And you really did look like you were smelling a fart.

Tbf, it was a long line and a few attendees were already a bit squiffy. She may well have been smelling a fart.

"Julie Birchall was there! and one of the lovely ladies who marched at pride"

Yes, and in the bar after the event Ms Burchill put her Amex card down and bought all the women there a drink. Fantastically generous. I spoke to one of the lovely ladies who marched at Pride and told her I recognised her from the photos, and how fantastic I thought their protest was.

What an awesome night, I'm so glad I went. I was very moved by Jill's speech and told her so.

But I bet you would call a female a "Feminine presenting cis gender folk who was coercively assigned female at birth"

Great speech by Kathleen. Strangely absent was the crude rabble rousing depicted earlier. How transparent.

I am sure transphobes think their fear of trans women is justified but I think it's an irrational phobia

Is fear of males irrational? Because I am not afraid of transmen. Is it rational to assume someone loses all societal conditioning because they feel like a woman?

What's a trabsphobe? Should I be scared of trabs?

Nah, you're just here to mess around. Your summary (as Sophocles says) was so far off it's not funny.

So no hate speech at all last night then?

How strange.

Medical procedures are based on consent. you can object to any member of staff performing a procedure on you if you are uncomfortable, and vice versa.

EXACTLY!!!

This was a few pages back but just for the lurkers....

I have a disability and have been assaulted by a doctor. Plus, I have had many traumatic experiences in hospitals where medical staff have humiliated me or not listened to me on many occasions.

I would have great difficulty asking for a different hcp for something like a smear if I didn't feel comfortable with the practioner, and that's not just for reasons relating to trans people. I feel uncomfortable with any male medical practitioner.

Among my many online friends with other disabilities and chronic illnesses I have found many similarly traumatised people who have been treated like shit by the medical profession. Many many people find visiting hcp's scary and traumatising.

In theory, it's easy to say, can I have a different hcp?

In practise it is virtually impossible for those of us who feel very vulnerable or who maybe clam up when they step foot inside a surgery.

If you care so much, please care about myself and my friends too. I attend my smears because they are preferable to me than not being diagnosed with something nasty. I find them pretty terrifying tbh. It would be 50x worse with a male-bodied person doing them. I am articulate and generally confident and English is my first language. Fear steals a lot of that confidence in certain situations.

nobody is afraid of trans people in the way you seem to think we are daimbars - we are angry that our rights are being eroded by transactivism totally different. I am not afraid if a trans person sits next to be on a bus or had a job working in the same department. I would treat them like anyone else and make my assessment on whether ik liked them or not on their individual characteristcs.
We 'women' just dont want to be put in situations where penises which are always attached to male bodies trans or not, are popping up in our changing rooms, in youth hostels, in girl guides camping trips or when it is women only swimming. As you will have heard at WPUK, the insiduousness of transactivism has led to some councils / other organisations actively deciding to not invoke sex-based protections either as a deliberate strategy to ultimately disappear 'women' or future proofing their organisation against accusations of transphobia or not being inclusive to the 'most oppressed'.

TRANSWOMEN ARE NOT WOMEN - political statement / biological fact

I call a spade a spade and a transphobe a trabsphobe

That is sometimes phrased 'I call a spade a shit shovel'

I call a spade a spade and a transphobe a trabsphobe.

Nuanced AF.

I am sure transphobes think their fear of trans women is justified but I think it's an irrational phobia

If you could please annotate or draw a diagram, of just how exactly a female person is able to tell the difference between a rapist in a skirt and what we might call a 'genuine' trans woman, that would be fab.

It will help my 'irrational' phobia no end. TIA.

Don't be silly, you can't define "trans". Just transphobia.

Although not that either really.

Is fear of males irrational? Because I am not afraid of transmen. Is it rational to assume someone loses all societal conditioning because they feel like a woman?

Nothing about trans ideology is remotely rational. We are in the realm of believing in metaphysical essences and souls. Which I can be polite about and humour up until the point where the believers want to burn me at the stake for heresy.

Yes, and in the bar after the event Ms Burchill put her Amex card down and bought all the women there a drink.

What what what???!!! How the hell did I miss this?

If you could please annotate or draw a diagram, of just how exactly a female person is able to tell the difference between a rapist in a skirt and what we might call a 'genuine' trans woman, that would be fab.

cf Current court case in California article May 2018
"[Homeless] Shelter forced women to shower with person who identified as a transgender woman and sexually harassed them, lawsuit says

(extract)
A prominent Fresno charity, homeless women, and the transgender community all say they're experiencing a nightmare come true.

Nine women homeless women signed on to a lawsuit against Naomi's House and its parent company, the Poverello House, saying the last place they could go to feel safe is now dangerous because they're forced to shower with a transgender woman.

The Naomi House bills itself as a gentle haven of healing and a safe haven for single, homeless women, but a new lawsuit says it put a lot of women in harm's way in a very vulnerable spot -- the shower.

It says the shelter requires them to shower in groups, and it opened its doors to a person who identified themself as a transgender woman who made lewd and sexually inappropriate comments, and leered at them while they were naked.

"This is the biggest fear they bring up, that you're going to have people who may not even be transgender in bathrooms and settings where people are naked and their privacy rights are being violated," said Peter Kapetan, who filed the lawsuit on behalf of the women.

Poverello House administrators tell Action News federal law says they have to treat a person identifying as a woman as a woman -- and there's no way to test whether it's true... (continues)

concludes
"Leaders in the Valley's transgender community tell us this is a nightmare for them too because if someone who calls herself a transgender woman is sexually harassing people, she put an already marginalized community in a bad light.

Karen Adell Scot, a local transgender advocate, even offered to train Naomi's House employees on how to recognize people just pretending to identify as the opposite gender.

One possible solution is already in place: Poverello House administrators say they added shower curtains about four months ago.

The lawsuit is due for a hearing in August."

thread which also includes discussion of other serious cases:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3266198-No-True-Transwoman-transadvocates-question-whether-TW-is-genuine-after-said-TW-sexually-harasses-women-in-homeless-shelter

As Ruth said, women aren't scared we're angry.

Medical procedures are based on consent. you can object to any member of staff performing a procedure on you if you are uncomfortable, and vice versa.

This was an important case (December 2017) which demonstrates the serious conflicts of rights/ good practice/consent:

inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-woman-transgender-nurse-smear-test/

extract:
"The woman requested a female NHS nurse to perform the intimate procedure but was dismayed when a staff member with “an obviously male appearance” greeted her. When the patient pointed out the mistake, the nurse replied: “My gender is not male. I’m a transsexual.” “[It was] weird where somebody says to you: ‘My gender is not male’ and you think: ‘Well, what does that even mean? You are clearly a man’.”

The woman declined to go ahead with the examination – given to women aged 25 to 49 every three years and every five years for women aged 50 to 64 – and complained about her treatment. She stressed her complaint was not about the nurse’s appearance or gender status. It is understood the nurse self-identified as a woman but had not been employed on that basis. He saw the patient only because of a clerical error. “[It was] weird where somebody says to you: ‘My gender is not male’ and you think: ‘Well, what does that even mean? You are clearly a man’, the woman told the Sunday Times. “[The nurse] had an obviously male appearance . . . close-cropped hair, a male facial appearance and voice, large number of tattoos and facial stubble.” (continues)

I have also been abused by a doctor and have been treated very badly by the medical profession.
I have talked to my current doctor about my fears and all she could say was that there was no trans HCP currently at the clinic, but if I had to be referred on, she couldn't guarantee that I wouldn't be put in the position of having to refuse having a biological male carry out intimate procedures.
And we know what would happen then. I would be put to the bottom of the list and my care would be compromised.
When I see people like Daim saying that this state of affairs is OK, I am very angry.