WPUK Brighton Meeting: Turning the Tide

[PlonitbatPlonit]

Tickets now available to hear Kathleen Stock, Helen Saxby, Gill Smith and Ruth Serwotka in Brighton on 16 July

www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/a-womans-place-is-turning-the-tide-tickets-47592125328

Helen Saxby's blog notthenewsinbriefs.wordpress.com/

Article by Gill Smith www.transgendertrend.com/lesbian-detransitioner-must-question-primary-solution/

Kathleen Stock's blog medium.com/@kathleenstock

Article by Ruth Serwotka morningstaronline.co.uk/article/why-do-we-need-new-womens-movement

Omg vulva, so I did! Muchos apologies. I hat e it whenever people generalise and then totally just did it myself on that thread. It was meant tin an jokey way but doesn't come across that way I can see.

I'll add an extra week of penance to my sackcloth and ashes timeout. In my (clutching at straws styleee) defence there is a tiny bit of a reputation for this board for being scary as fuck to post in, and in the lurking I've done here I've seen quite a bit of troll hunting and posters getting hassled (sorry, but true). It's not all posters though, so sorry and please excuse nooobish faut pas.

The Trump thread is awesomely stupid though. Definitely worth s read for light relief.

Serious question, why is this "scary as fuck to post in"? What do you thinks going to happen?

Well, saying the wrong thing and getting told off, laughed at or troll hunted. There's been lots of mentions for ages in other bits of mn when feminism board gets mentioned,, and wasn't there a couple of whole threads about if being hostile in here quite recently?

Plus all the moderation stuff and terminology to get on top of. It's a lot! Not like scary as fuck in the sense of real harm, but intimidating yes. (Sorry again, but it is what it is.) you're all so in the loop and know all the things an dseen it all that it's scary to join in.

IntercontinentalButtCrack

Two weeks and you have a deal.
I will disagree with a pp and agree with you that the board can be scary to post in for new posters and I HAVE been troll hunted here myself for disagreeing, (frequent name changer). However, I think you have to agree that the tetchiness might come down to the fact that it does actually get trolled quite a bit and that can wear people down.

Still it used to be a lot scarier. If you're posting postDittany you don't know you're born. She'd chew your ass up and hand it back to you.

Also, and I won't go on and on about the comment you made on the bonkers thread but it's those kind of comments elsewhere that cumulatively make people feel shit and worn down. Even though I believe you weren't trying to be nasty.

Two weeks and counting. Thankyou vulva.

I do understand the tetchiness. There's clearly a lot of shit stirring. I can totally see why people end up coming in for a bit and then running away though. If I hadn't been on the avery nice and interesting a pron thread for balance I think the other bits would have seen me off the premises with my tail between my legs. Seems a shame to be so twitchy that the board is not as accessible as it might be for the masses of mn to come on in and take part and say what they think, whether it's agree or disagree.

Saw Dittany in action on a thread once a long time back. Formidable.

Vulva and Buttcrack - you don't get that on nethuns.

But you understand that nothing will happen to you if people disagree with your posts on Mumsnet, right? Just look at the long-term goady fuckers in this section: they're still standing!

Trolls ignore questions and refuse definitions and only talk about their own personal feelings. They don't care about women's rights. If you avoid that, you'll be fine.

It's also a moderated forum where you can report stuff and where personal attacks are banned. (Reddit on the other hand, Christ, that's a scary cesspit in some places. No nice Mum community to run and cry to there.)

IntercontinentalButtCrack

Not sure if you've seen this thread, but a lot of people new to the wider issues have found it helpful.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Yes Julie offered to buy me a drink, then said she'd buy everyone a drink. She put her card behind the bar but had a limit and by the time I got there they had just reached it must have been a few £100 though.

Glad it all went so well last night.

A couple of points. There is a strict policy of no photos or video inside the venue in order to try and minimise the potential for women to be stalked and doxed by TRAs. It's very much their stock in trade. A lot of the women will have been victims of DVA and their privacy matters to women, or at least it should do, I realise there are a number of women, including one posting on this thread who would happily see other women thrown under any number of buses/killed by their violent exes for thinking the wrong things.

Secondly, the speeches are put on YouTube as is. The only time they might be edited is if they have accidentally filmed a member of the audience who is at risk of the actions I mentioned above.

Thirdly, on the subject of smears, if you have been the victim of sexual violence there is a women only specialist service in London and hopefully another is going to be set up in the North. Other than that, yes, legally you are able to withdraw consent for a medical procedure, on any basis, however, it will be marked on your notes and you will be regarded as 'difficult' from then on and treated accordingly so your boundaries may well mean that you're not taken as seriously, unhelpful when women are already not taken as seriously as men when it comes to medical things.

Lastly, lying about how a WPUK meeting went, when it can be amply demonstrated that that is what you're doing was probably not the best way to go. It makes you look like an utter fool.

rowantrees to add to your post - for those people that insist that you can refuse to have an medical appointment - well why should you be put in what i would regard a publicly embarrasing position to refuse treatment from a self iding trans person if you have already clearly asked for a female. Thankfully some nhs policy still uses the word sex in their dignity policy but whether they actually mean sex or gender these days who knows. Also if you refuse you might have another several week wait for an appointment, in the meantime those cervical cancer cells might be growing......this is unacceptable..and the nhs are opening themselves up to compensation claims if they are not following their own policies

It makes you look like an utter fool.

Is that the Twitter Muppet who's calling WPUK people witches and claiming obsessively that transwomen can have periods?

iamawoman

iamawoman

There are a number of key issues,

-that NHS policies did not not (could not /cannot?) identify the sex of a nurse when rotoring intimate examinations.

-that a nurse did not recognise how innappropriate/contrary to policy it was to consider doing an intimate examination as a male without a female chaperone.

-offering and providing a female chaperone for procedures carried out by male HCPs is standard practice. There are clear recognised reasons for this.

-that the nurse did not prioritise the needs of the patient, demonstrate empathy and care for her, prioitising the assertion of their own identity. This is a serious issue and that the NHS assumed responsibility for it obscures this.

I have a good friend who has been a nurse for many years. She screamed in horror when she read the article and commented that they often have older male patients who show some unease with aspects of personal care done by females. She said it is standard practice to notice this and discreetly find a colleague to take over if possible. She also commented that she has a colleague who is a transwoman who is a great nurse, incredibly empathetic, respectful and would be similarly horrified

Great post Rowantrees

Its ridiculous Wanderabout!

I have to have regular follow-ups following gyny cancer. My (male) consultant with whom I have an excellent relationship wouldn't dream of not having a chaperone present despite arguably knowing my body better than anyone.

I saw another (male) consultant last year and needed a bladder USS . He explained he needed my trouser button undone, offered to call a chaperone. I thanked him and declined as it was uneccessary but thanked him for the offer. I could have comfortably said yes if I had wished one as that had been made clear.

What is also deeply concerning is the response (seen on this board by some TRA posters) that refusing a transwoman is akin to a patient who is racist refusing treatment. I have also heard this from a female HCP who has a very close friend who is a transwoman and focussed on their identity/needs rather than considering the wider picture and focussing on the needs of the patient.

"Goodness, the worst someone can do here is type some words at you."

Words can be extremely hurtful, they can be triggering, they can cause immense damage to someone already vulnerable.

That's true. The TRA movement has caused a lot of damage with their use of language after all.

I do understand the tetchiness.

See, I wasn't tetchy with you at all.

But after reading endless posts by you about you, I am feeling tetchy. I want to read about the topic of the thread, not your experience on FWR and how everyone's got it in for you.

You might want to reflect on how to make things better, not how to irritate more people!

i think we need to prohibit the use of the word 'triggering' as it triggers me. Especially when it used to manipulate what can and cannot be talked about. Just dont read the post if you think you might find something that offends or you are unable to deal with it.

I'm so sorry you're irritated by me Lang. My endless posts were replying to posters who asked me stuff or were about the stats. It was someone else who said there was tetchiness here, not me, and not about you, and I definitely didn't mean or say everyone's out to get me.

but way to go on making a newbie to this board and this topic feel less than welcome to join in and maybe learn something or contribute. I can't imagine why it I would be that so many posters don't come in here. You're absolutely right, the rep it has for being tetchy is totally unfounded. It's all bubblegum and unicorns and welcome mats. I'll go spread the word.

I see that Daim's inaccurate account of the meeting has been used by Adrian Harrop to harangue Jury's Inn.

twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1019230367256141825

IBC - if someone annoys you, just ignore them, or tackle their arguments. No need to spread words or feel personally victimised.

No one "cares" that you're a newbie, partly because we'd usually have no way of knowing with the endless namechanges here.

A couple of posters stand out because of frequency of posting, or clarity or rudeness, but mostly, honestly, no one notices that much.