#ManFriday group closing

[YesItsADebate]

It gives me great sadness to write this post but we have been attacked this week, on our Facebook organising group by someone who claims to be a feminist and an ally to our cause. They chose to leak some screenshots to a Twitter troll (outing our members) and make a ridiculous allegation against us and Dr Nic in a thread on here and has slipped through our clean-up of our online group.

They are now threatening police action against high profile members of our group unless we prostrate ourselves to her bullying. @Sweary has a great response to that: the ever eloquent G F* Y! (starred to prevent deletion! ahem).

As we don't know who they are and don't know how to stop them the only option we have is to burn the group. This loses us so many allies, who have supported our actions wholeheartedly since that first day meeting wiht my local swimming pool and it breaks my heart. As we met on MN FWR I hope that most of you are still here and see this. We really didn't want to lose you - and you were as important as those of us out there getting on with the activism.

That this has happened in the run up to the consultation being launched, a time when we really should have our attentions and activities focussed elsewhere is ridiculous. This person has chosen to pursue a personal vendetta at a time when we should be pulling together and building on the success #ManFriday has had so far.

#ManFriday will keep fighting for the rights, safety, privacy and dignity of women and girls. We aren't going away but for the security of our members, we have to use alternative platforms to the Facebook group for organising our activism. Our website, Twitter feed etc. will still be up and running (come & get a t-shirt )

Please keep up with the #randomactsofmanliness and keep taking up space on Fridays. Or any day come to that.

Amy, Sweary and the #ManFriday admin team x (unMumsnetty but )

Bespin as you have said you work with young people, can I encourage you to watch this video by Rose of Dawn ( a trans woman)?

She highlights very important issues in the video.

'What Does Co-Opting The Trans Movement Look Like?'

'Radical far-left activists often co-opt unrelated movements to enforce their ideology on others. Here, I take a look at this phenomenon taking place in the trans community'

I'm sure man firday are old enough to take care of themselves.

Age is no protection against agressive TRA Bespin as you know.

Maria Machlauchlan was 60 years old.
She writes here about the assault by T Wolf and the trial

Helen Lewis wrote in the NewStatesman April 2018:
'The madness of our gender debate, where feminists defend slapping a 60-year-old woman
It seems swivel-eyed to condemn rhetorical “attacks” and blithely ignore physical ones.'

'You would have thought that a feminist getting punched in the face would be reasonably large news – particularly if her attacker had boasted online earlier of wanting to “fuck up” some feminists, comparing them to fascists. But the conviction of the person who attacked 60-year-old Maria MacLachlan at Speakers’ Corner last year didn’t trouble the pages of the Guardian, where I would normally expect to hear about something that veers close to being a hate crime, or the LGBT website Pink News. Why? A clue comes in the fact that MacLachlan was slapped by a 26-year-old transgender woman called Tara Wolf, who explained to the court that MacLachlan was a “TERF” – a term commonly used to stand for “trans exclusionary radical feminist”, ie one who doesn’t believe that trans women are “real” women, but which Wolf defined as a “trans exterminatory radical feminist”.

The implication was that MacLachlan, now 61, wants all transgender people dead – something that seems absolutely barking until you realise this is quite a common accusation in activist spaces. The feminist group Sisters Uncut, which has done great work protesting the closure of domestic violence services, somehow looked at the case and decided that Wolf was the real victim. It used a hashtag – #freetheshewolf – and called for a protest outside Hendon Magistrates’ Court, asking for support for a “trans woman targeted… and harassed by TERFs, transmisogynists and cops”, adding: “Attacks on trans lives will not be tolerated.”

While I have no doubt that Wolf has faced prejudice and bullying due to being trans, it seems swivel-eyed to condemn rhetorical “attacks” and blithely ignore physical ones." (continues)

"The Wolf affair also demonstrates another alarming phenomenon: the left getting high on its own supply of self-righteousness. “Some feminists have a different conception of gender to me” gets smudged into “some feminists talk about me in ways that I find offensive” and on to “some feminists are basically Hitler, trying to eradicate people like me”.

Once you reach the last statement, then of course you can slap a woman and still think of yourself as a good person. She wants to kill you; a mere punch is self-defence" (continues)

www.newstatesman.com/politics/feminism/2018/04/madness-our-gender-debate-where-feminists-defend-slapping-60-year-old

*this is discussed in the video by Rose of Dawn above. Rose identifies a thread which links Wolf, Action to Trans Health and some prominant NUS officers

R0wantrees totally see roses point of view and it's something I have discussed with other groups myself, I am also at a loss to explain trans action for health views on issues not related to health and do feel that some people with other views have been very. vocal within these groups who. have in the past done good work in highlighting issues. I do feel both sides are being Co opted in this debate by people that have very different views from the majority that are rebating this. issue and there voices are often the loudest and media orginasations want to talk with them due to there more radical views that set them in direct conflict with the other side rather than trying to work. through the issues

If you see Roses point Bespin you would not be attempting to suggest conflation. The role of prominant NUS officers is very significant and serious.
There are significant wider implications raised by Rose's comments that directly affect young people.

R0wantrees if you can not at. least consider both sides of this and union officials who should represent all members are also a serious concern. Young people who are represented by the nus like other unions have the right to vote people out and I agree union representives should be measured in there view. you seem to want to just score points on each post as if I don't consider these views. I am. concerned about this as I am. about the head of a teachers union holding views that could effect trans young people and also other grand unionists that also hold. such views as personal views should be kept. out of such posts

There aren't two sides Bespin characterising it this way is damaging.

If you are alluding to Womans Place UK (which I believe you may be) they have 5 demands. The speeches given at previous events are on their website.
womansplaceuk.org/about/

Suggesting I am 'scoring points' says more about you than my posts or motivation.

Womans PLace UK are meeting tonight in Brighton

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3292400-WPUK-Brighton-Meeting-Turning-the-Tide

There will be live tweets from the meeting #WPUK

R0wantrees good I am glad they are meeting I have a lot of time for a debate that is undertaken in an open and honest spirit and have talked to some of the trans poeple that support them I have no issues with them at all I am. and condone anyone who tries to silance debate undertaken in that manner. the fact that you willfully dismiss claims that conservative Christians from the US have backed this campaign and put money into it when they often have a diffent agenda to many on here and any mention of it is shouted down. that you don't want to talk about other union leaders in the same light as the nus leader means that you don't wish to examine this issue at all. for what it is worth I don't think the nus trans rep should support such veiws and should condemn violance

the fact that you willfully dismiss claims that conservative Christians from the US have backed this campaign and put money into it when they often have a diffent agenda to many on here and any mention of it is shouted down. that you don't want to talk about other union leaders in the same light as the nus leader means that you don't wish to examine this issue at all

That is a misrepresentation of me Bespin.

As I said before, this says more about you than me.

Please don't do this.

R0wantrees so still not wishing to acknowledge the reality of this situation then, and just reflect this back onto me. do you not think that money in the crowd funders as come from American conservative groups, that some people that are gender critical also would like to restrict or aspects of Lgbt community.

if you are. not. even willing to consider this then you are either very nieve or are one of these people.

Conflating Gender Critical feminists and extreme right wing groups is firstly inaccurate and secondly a well worn whataboutery tactic R0wan as you obviously well aware of

womanformallyknownaswoman sorry but to simply look at one side of this and have no reflection of your own view or to even consider the aims of done of the people stood along side you seems wrong. I acknowledge that there are TRA with extreme views and condemn violence but no one on here ever seems to want to acknowledge that there might be people using the gender critical case for other issues it is simply dismissed. look what happened with the woman's place and how they finally had to acknowledge that someone held views that they couldn't support. there seems to be a thing in line about winning at all costs and I don't understand it as in the end it will only. hurt your cause not to acknowledge that as it is hurting the trans community not to acknowledge TRA violence

womanformallyknownaswoman you've muddled mine & Bespin's name!

I'm with Natasha Chart on this:

On the subject of whether a woman is an adult human female, feminists have been made thoroughly unwelcome on the left. So if liberals think it’s very strange for feminists to work with conservatives, they should probably stop telling us to “drink bleach” or looking the other way as online mobs demand that we be fired.

I'm also with :

Part of having a feminist resistance to male power includes expanding the base of that resistance to other women, to women you have less in common with, to women you have nothing in common with. It means active, proselytizing dialogue with women of many different political viewpoints because their lives are worth what your life is worth.

That's why.

We have to go past the conventional political barriers, the lines that the men have drawn for us. "Our girls are over there; we'll call them Democrats, we'll call them socialists, we'll call them whatever we want to call them. Those girls are over there; that's their girls. The girls on our side aren't allowed to talk to the girls on their side." Well, if the girls on either side talked to the girls on the other side, they just might find out that they're being screwed the same way by the same kinds of men.

Andrea's talk is over 30 years old. That's how long we've been dealing with this divisive crap.

And the idea that WPUK are funded by HATA is laughable.

Brilliant quotes, Pencils 👏

Conflating Gender Critical feminists and extreme right wing groups is firstly inaccurate and secondly a well worn whataboutery tactic

womanformallyknownaswoman sorry misread!

In answer, yes of course, I have seen this happen frequently, as it did again yesterday in response to WPUK meeting:
twitter.com/teresamaryclark/status/1018958515543605254

Thanks Pencils
There has to be "dialogue with women of many different political viewpoints because their lives are worth what your life is worth."

Conflating Gender Critical feminists and extreme right wing groups is firstly inaccurate and secondly a well worn whataboutery tactic

cf
twitter.com/CaseyExplosion/status/1015982894806904832

link from tweet in picture: transadvocate article

SwearyG

twitter.com/SwearyGodmother/status/1019253186132135947