Diva magazine is trans inclusive

[daimbars]

Statement on trans inclusion in a tweet from Diva, the UK's biggest lesbian magazine.
I'm pleased they've made their position clear, and support it.

No, the nominally "straight" men who aren't as straight as they claim but want a certain kind of hook up on Grindr. Or alternatively they really do subscribe to TWAW, but I don't think so because most men don't really believe that, even the wokest of woke bros. If that makes sense. I certainly don't think they'd look for them on Grindr if they thought of them as actual women.

Sorry thread moved on! That last post in reply to Certain.

If something may be relevant to whether or not someone is willing to have sex with you then you should tell them before they have sex with you. If you choose to instead withhold that information then you are being a terrible person. If you wouldn't do so yourself but think it's OK for others to do so? Your moral compass is broken.

Yes, we are all agreed on this. Nobody is suggesting trans people should hide their trans status from potential partners.

Nat doesn't seem to be.

spontaneousgiventime - I haven’t replied because I have finished work and I am about to (relevant given this thread) have a date night with a girl.

Short answer - Yes, I believe there is no problem with me being near your DGD in a changing room. As for the other thread we were talking in, patronising you was not my intention.

Apologies for not replying to everything. If you want a detailed reply, please PM me a list and I will reply when I’m free, most likely tomorrow unless the heat kills me.

Flag. Post. Nailed.

I am completely open about being trans to any prospective partner. If they are okay with it then great! If not, that is okay too.

This is what Nat said which sounds absolutely fine and reasonable.

Enjoy the date NatLuc !

A problem. Oh good, glad you see it as a problem. So you will be staying out of women's changing rooms from now on. As for being hot. Try hot flushes!

I'm now done with you. You parade across this board as a person who presents as opposite to your birth sex and we have to accept it. FUCK THAT. Its people like you who give no thought or care to women who have hardened my stance. I hope your tougher skin can take it!

Nat also waffled about other people disclosing even though they'd do so themselves. There's no room for waffling here - it's an ethical obligation, not a personal choice.

I made a mistake. A person with male genitalia DOES think it's ok to be around nude little girls. OH NO Nat. OH NO!

This is war!

Because it means men now think they are entitled to lesbians, which leads to men getting angry when they are rejected and beating people up and attempting to murder them, as well as the rest of the abuse they dish out.

Lesbians have always had abuse - verbal & physical - for only being interested in our own sex.

But while that abuse used to be condemned as homophobic, the rise of the cotton ceiling & the rape culture pushed by the likes of Riley Dennis & Ada Wells now mean that we get accused of transphobia because of our sexuality. Clever.

I don't give any kind of a shit about Diva magazine, especially since I recently saw a male person claim to the readers they had 'earned' their womanhood, unlike the lazy female readers.

It did used to be good though, I remember reading an interview with the wonderful poet U.A Fanthorpe, articles on lesbian history and club nights you might actually want to go to.
I feel really sorry for young lesbians and hope they can keep away from this toxic mess. It won't last.

Short answer - Yes, I believe there is no problem with me being near your DGD in a changing room

Here is my problem with this. My DH is safe around children. He’d be mortified to find himself in a changing room full of women but he’d be no danger (probably be apologising profusely and looking the other way in great embarrassment whilst running for the door.) he is no danger to women or children.

But he still shouldn’t be in a women’s changing room, because it’s not OK for any male bodied person to be in a women’s changing room. So while he, personally, is no danger to anyone, he’d never even dream of accessing such an area. Because he understands that its not about him. he understands that its about women and girls’ safety in the presence of men as a class.

This is not about individuals. For an individual to say ‘well do you think I’m unsafe? That’s offensive to me, I demand in’ is not the point. The point is that we have sex segregated spaces because women and children as a class are vulnerable to men as a class.

The safety, or non safety, of any individual of small group of individuals is irrelevant. What’s relevant is the class protection remains.

Back to the OP: What’s relevant in terms of sexual orientation is that that orientation isn’t personal - a lesbian HAS to have the right to exclude all males as a class. Inconvenience or distress or offence to an individual is neither here nor there.

Me: Hey that is okay, you don't need to apologise!

Never, in my almost two decades as a woman on the Internet, have I ever had a response like this from a man, or from a trans woman, when I have rejected them (no matter how politely).

If people could be trusted to communicate and respond this way, there’s obviously less of a problem. But as you’ve seen from the TRA community, rejecting someone because they’re trans and have genitals to which I have no attraction, makes me a hateful bigot.

I used to buy Diva regularly back in the 90s when I was just out.

But that was back in the day, when there were lesbian magazines & bars that really were just about lesbians.

And womanhood's not something you earn. It's not a badge of honour or entry to a club. It's a biological state, something you grow into if you're born a girl. That's it.

Empress, it makes me so angry. I'm straight but I'm an ally and the thought of lesbians basically being hounded out of their hard won woman only spaces by entitled porn-sick men makes me wild.

Sexual orientation is about sex. Sex. Not gender. Fuck that shit.

There is no such thing as a lesbian with a penis, Prawn! (good to see you at Inconvenient Women, by the way).

Both my DH and my husband are lovely people who would never harm a child. That doesn't mean it would be OK for them to walk into spaces where little girls are changing into their swimsuits, much less get their own cocks out in those spaces.

Also ditto my male friends, cousins, etc. Still not OK for them to be in spaces where random women and girls are undressing. Not even the ones who're about as macho as a not very macho thing.

If people could be trusted to communicate and respond this way, there’s obviously less of a problem.

Yes. This is like the problem with the sex-based exemptions in the Equality Act. If anywhere actually tries to make use of them, they get dragged through the mud on social media & threatened with legal action.

This isn't about value judgements or insulting people. It's about simply recognising that sometimes we segregate by sex. I have male friends & family I'm very close to but I'd still not share a changing room or bedroom with them because they're male.

NatLuc - Can you really not see why there would be a problem male bodied people in spaces where girls are getting undressed? Seriously?

Narcissists are incapable of seeing anyone but themselves.

Natluc, you need to adjust that moral compass. Or get a new one, if it's faulty.

As a 'straight' woman, i exclude women from my 'dating pool' - does this make me homophobic? I also wouldnt 'date' a man who believes he is a woman , does this make me transphobic as well as homophobic? If a transwoman 'lesbian' only 'dates' biological women are they then homophobic (towards men)?? I am assuming that if one believes sex can be changed, then the follow on logic from that is that sexual orientation is a smaller leap.

This is not about individuals. For an individual to say ‘well do you think I’m unsafe? That’s offensive to me, I demand in’ is not the point. The point is that we have sex segregated spaces because women and children as a class are vulnerable to men as a class.

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I know lots of nice, safe men. I still want some spaces to be segregated for my comfort and privacy.