Tuesday roll call

[ballsballsballs]

Morning!

I had a post deleted for 'misgendering'. A couple of hours later, the person in question said in another place that they don't mind being referred to as 'he', and subsequent posts in the same thread were left to stand with he/him pronouns. My post went poof because I - wrongly - assumed that it's ok to use correctly sexed pronouns for so-called allies, I didn't realise that express consent from the person in question was required.
There is coercion from all sides.

It doesn't seem to matter, IME, how a person refers to themselves, which can change at any given time, without notice, or memos, if, in our dance to get it right, we can't find out whats right, or think we are doing it right...banned!

Goal posts continually changed (another abusers tactic ticked on the bingo card)

Lang has it though about the important discussions that are taking place elsewhere now.

the context is everything

Absolutely

Constantly nit picking at one particular poster

Using the phase ‘you are saying...’ when they aren’t saying anything of the sort

Pretending you don’t understand something...

Lying and being a disingenuous

All these and loads more don’t break talk guidelines but make a debate Impossible!

You are firefighting the entire time...

Oh my goodness

My own ipad has turned against me

Should have read disingenuous cockwomble

Pretending you don’t understand something ...

There is a reverse of this.

Making up bollox and expecting others to somehow make sense of it, then report them when they can't and say so.

Tin hat on:. Cant see deleted threads messages; not getting notified of deletions, so deletions lead to bannings with no chance for change of direction or recourse; reduced functionality on AS, obstructing access to posting history on user specific searches.

Caveat: thread deletion message visibility now reinstated.

There's definitely a different feel about the place.

Has it been since Katemumsnet left?

Truth - quite a lot of that seems like technical ballsupping rather than necessarily anything sinister.

What's missing on AS? I usually only do quite simple searches (name checking mostly) and hadn't noticed anything wrong with that at least.

Not on FWR, but I started a thread about bedwetting, someone immediately (I didn't even see the post) accused me of being a bedwetting troll, and I got immediately banned, account closed etc. I didn't even know I'd been banned, just that I couldn't log in at all.

I'd been posting for years about normal parenting stuff, including troubles with potty training, and yet all it took was (presumably) one poster reporting me as a troll. Asking for advice about bedwetting, nothing goady or weird in the slightest!

It took several days of me emailing for them to apologise and reinstate. So I don't think context, posting history etc is necessarily taken into account. I suspect they are overworked but it is very frustrating.

Blimey. That's a problem for a parenting site - it's exactly the sort of issue which no one discusses IRL which might bring someone here for the first time looking for help.

Has the general profile of moderators changed I wonder? Are they now people who are more prone to the general lack of respect for older women and mothers?

I've been wondering the same thing. Especially when it comes to the weekend moderation policies. Find myself wondering if there are a number of new moderators who disapprove of blunt speaking women and are eager to discipline us, or if there are just fewer moderators working the weekend and the increased pressure of work leads less time to see the context of posts and twitchy trigger fingers.

Tin hat off:. Yes, all tech issues.

Many can't click on the user post, but only the thread title. Message deletion, now finally sorted.

The mod who banned you Pope was too narrow-minded, and not consdering any other factors/context, than the report.

Thats a problem, that and difficulty inngetting explanations, apologies, or posts reinstated.

I think you were lucky. Did it take you long, to be reinstated?

I wish it was the sea lions and filibusters that got banned rather than the regular constructive contributors.

It's the sea lioning and filibustering which puts me off contributing to many threads (which is of course the aim of the people doing it).

Lang has it though about the important discussions that are taking place elsewhere now.

Spending more time on spinster now. MeWe is a bit more of a bubble as groups I am in are private but it's a safe place and not moderated.

There may be higher quality discussions going on elsewhere but I’ve still not seen anything that unsettles TRAs like Mumsnet. It’s public. it’s viewed by millions, there are a lot of mums, a lot of older women ... you can see how they hate it. So you can have your unmonitored conversations if you want, and I might even join you sometimes, but as long as they’re obsessing about Mumsnet and trying to disrupt us then I’m planning on sticking around here, getting right under their skin.

It is sad people are leaving but I can understand. Some disrupters seem to tag team on long term and respected posters to have them removed. FWR ‘s loss and a few protected individuals gain.

I do really hope people will stick around. I do my best irl to champion women but it can be a lovely road and I have very limited involvement in groups as noone either online or in real life has invited me to join and they tend to be secret. If mumsnet FWR goes it will be a major hole in terms of support for me and maybe many others. I've tried spinster but find it hard to get into. I try and post when I have something to say but mostly listen and learn.

I like it here. I also over-police myself so I don't interact as much as I'd like - but I read the threads I find illuminating, fun, or educational and keep up with them.

I'm sticking around, always awaiting the next dose of brilliance from those that remain (you know who you are).

I'm trying to like Spinster's format - I like the concept and am following some FWR past and present regulars as well as some randoms that have interesting things to say but I have yet to post anything. I'll bite the bullet at some point but like FWR I will likely observe for an extended period before engaging.

FWR is refuge for so many and I greatly hope that things will balance out soon.

There may be higher quality discussions going on elsewhere but I’ve still not seen anything that unsettles TRAs like Mumsnet. It’s public. it’s viewed by millions, there are a lot of mums, a lot of older women ... you can see how they hate it. So you can have your unmonitored conversations if you want, and I might even join you sometimes, but as long as they’re obsessing about Mumsnet and trying to disrupt us then I’m planning on sticking around here, getting right under their skin.

Flo's post is so important it's worth printing out in its entirety.

MN is huge. It's public. It's perceived by women as mainstream. They come here for all sorts of other reasons - birth advice, breastfeeding, toddler tantrums, schools advice, children's health. Then they stumble on FWR (or relationships - I'm not leaving that one to be overrun by the victim-blamers and the marriage-is-sacred-ers and the marriages-take-work(but-strangely-only-on-the-part-of-the-wife)-ers).

If we leave they have won, silencing women and pushing women out of groups is a tactic the TRAs employ to dominate. The disrupted threads are tedious but I'm not going to leave, they don't get this space too.

I'm not going anywhere.

MN is a weird but amazing place and is full of useful information on a wide range of topics. Many of my google searches include the word mumsnet because I know I'll find something about most things on here whether I'm buying something, cooking something, going somewhere or have a really big verruca.

The MLM threads opened my eyes, and it was interesting to read about the cult-like aspects of them and how dissent is not tolerated. Other threads on news and political issues have been some of my main ways of keeping up with the fucking chaos that's going on at the moment.

The TRAs hate us because they don't get it. Many of us are not here just to talk about this issue in FWR. But because they don't wander far from here (and maybe AIBU) they don't understand that. That's why they are surprised when we're not just talking about prams and nappies.

I looked on twitter the other day and saw tweets with selectively screenshot posts from here. It was fucking hilarious. How obvious can you make it that you have no argument when you need to make stuff up to try and discredit us.

That's how I know we're doing something right.

I’m not certain MN’s heart is totally in this board anymore. It’s like they invited us over for morning tea and... and we’re still here at midnight, “robustly discussing” away, and the neighbours keep calling the police.

There is also a slight cultural disconnect, with some moderators being TWAW (which is fine) and many posters TWATW, which I think can make it hard for certain discussions to be held at times.

Now I’m worried I sounded terse and unappreciative! 😬 Hence I should add that I do very much appreciate the board, it’s moderation and being able to discuss issues affecting women and girls 💚💜

I’m not certain MN’s heart is totally in this board anymore. It’s like they invited us over for morning tea and... and we’re still here at midnight, “robustly discussing” away, and the neighbours keep calling the police.

That made me laugh.

The other thing, of course, is that new guests keep showing up. So it's bound to have peaks and troughs of activity. One thing is for sure, the discussion is not going away.

The constant, reporting/monitoring of this board by outsiders is a fucking disgrace.

This place isn't half as bad as Twitter or Kiwifarms.

It really isn't.

A good thing has come out of this..

We have had to sharpen our critical thinking skills to avoid getting banned.

I agree with Bernard, the mods seem to be showing disrespect to some of their users.