Posters jumping before they're pushed

[spontaneousgiventime]

Well MNHQ we have the start of the exodus. Posters leaving due to these new guidelines that throw women under the bus.

A poster has deleted their account today due to the upset and stress of getting a strike for saying something that is 100% true. We know it's true because TRA's posted it on Twitter themselves, yet we post it and it's kick off time at HQ

It's a fucking disgrace HQ WOMEN are your target audience yet you don't give a fucking shiny shit about us. Not a fucking shit and it stinks.

More and more women will leave and you will be left with nothing more than people who present as opposite to their birth sex sitting posting about heels, make-up, clothes and fucking knitting.

Good luck with that one.

I’ve messaged spontaneous but don’t want to @ her in case she’s having a much needed break from it all.

If anyone who knows about the other place can message me I’m happy to prove my GC credentials

I think its possible and important that some of the people with so much knowledge and understanding might find a way to remain on this site.

There are increasing numbers of people becoming aware of the wider implications of the legislation and policies advocated for by trans rights activists.

Many will be reading or posting here for the first time and will not have the knowledge of the wider picture, previous discussions or common misconceptions etc.

Whilst asking questions of the new MN guidelines and challenging some posters on this board is important, I believe there is a very important bigger picture.

It seems likely that the Government's consultation on proposed changes to GRA will begin shortly. Time and energies are important resources.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3269463-Government-response-to-the-petition

This is only my opinion and I fully support and respect all the decisions and choices that women make in response to thecurrent environment on this Feminism and Women's Rights board.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3218213--W-hat-A-bout-W-omen-A-nd-G-irls

I’m currently watching season 2 of the Handmaids Tale and it really is scary how the silencing of women in dystopian fiction (and of people generally in Orwell etc) is now our reality.

The whole ‘don’t talk about your life before ‘ business is chillingly similar to the concept of dead-naming. Not being allowed to read or write - well as long as it’s about recipes and kittens we’re still allowed. Women’s biology being co-opted by men, and the women who serve them, for their own ends - but who needs a Handmaid if you can get a womb implant and do it yourself?! We’re going to be living in fucking Gilead if people don’t wake up.

The other place should definitely have a twitter account. Wild world thatvis a good idea publicing a log of deletions. Please some one do it? Please.

The spelling there oh dear

That is a great idea. I also give them permission to share my pdf of the intersex "infertile women" thread.

It was Mumsnet that alerted me and numerous others to this issue. However, although I don't post much, I now feel as if I am colluding with an unfair fettering of speech. I feel embarrassed to ask but I would appreciate a message about the other place just in case.

I don’t post often but FWR has always been the section I’ve read the most on MN. I have appreciated all the things I have read and been introduced to over the years - it’s so very sad that this, one of the very few places on the internet where I could find a woman dominated space has come to this.

I would appreciate a link or invite to the GC forum if that is ok - I may even be more vocal over there :)

Would anyone mind PMing me a link to The Other Place?

I’ve been thinking about the guidelines and other posters’ response to them, and based on the more in depth reading by people who are better at picking up nuance and implication - I don’t understand them well enough to consistently abide by what MNHQ want. I am confused about how we can talk about biology except when we can’t, and we should avoid offensive language except when we’re the target. I don’t do well with this kind of case by case moderation approach that seems to rely so heavily on opinion and tone. My brain needs hard and fast rules!

Might still be about to talk knitting and TTC and appropriate topics, but this place is too stressful for me at the mo.

I am so proud of all you brave, brave women who have posted on this thread. I've read every post. I admit, I'm exhausted by it all but while I have breath in my body I will fight.

I see there are loads of requests for the other place. Please PM me, there are just too many for me to reply to here.

I am so, so tired, but...

                                    <strong>WE ARE SPARTACUS</strong>

The thing is, in real life, no one buys any of this.

I saw this article on FB the other day (it came up as one of my friends always comments on Vice articles)

broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/evq43w/buck-angel-how-learning-to-love-my-vagina-affirmed-my-manhood

Every single one of the hundreds of comments underneath was saying how ridiculous it was, that if you have a vagina you are not a man, etc etc. It was unanimous, from mainly men with some women also saying that same. Some of the comments were quite nasty and unnecessary. I couldn't see a single comment either accusing anyone of transphobia, or explaining why its perfectly possible for a man to have a vagina.

No one believes it.

I maintain that this all comes back to the idea that a website run by women for women should be 'kind' and 'nice' at all times, even if doing that could negatively affect the lives of its prime users.

Eech I don't think that's completely true, particularly of the sort of person, across all classes mainly middle class who went to University despite being rather stupid. Certainly I know people who believe that a toddler can know if its brain is a different sex to its body and that Munroe Bergdorf actually has a woman's brain and therefore is a woman.

I have started a new thread.

I wondered if before people left they might like to highlight a thread, discussion or resource they think important or significant.

I've only become aware of this issue over recent months and have learned so much from the women on this board and will forever be grateful

Long term posters hold so much knowledge and experience.

Its all here within the discussions... ( unless deleted or on a zapped thread)

Thank you

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3287977-Long-term-members-of-FWR-if-youre-leaving-might-you-choose-a-thread-or-resource-before-you-go-please?

It is interesting and somewhat telling that women are feeling stressed and upset by these 'guidelines' (and they deserve inverted commas because they aren't necessarily guiding anyone) but it is the trolls (and we know you see them) who get away with stuff and apparently the trolls whose feelings matter. I wonder if it crosses your mind that the trolls don't buy the nappies and other products you advertise to mothers here? (assuming we can still call a mother a mother??)

Policing women's voices to the extent that is happening here is siding with patriarchy and siding with men who abuse them.

A small portion do believe it genuinely and another portion pretend to believe it. The vast majority about 95% of the population, don't believe.

Maybe they looked at our clicks and what we spend and decided it wasn't worth it. I don't buy direct from MN links, I open a new page and do it unconnected to my MN account. So I'm on the face of it a non-contributor. Maybe it's something to do with our spend.

I maintain that this all comes back to the idea that a website run by women for women should be 'kind' and 'nice' at all times, even if doing that could negatively affect the lives of its prime users.

THIS

The amount of women complaining of stress and worsening MH issues after these guidelines were implemented is staggering. I'm tough as old boots and even I'm struggling, so God help those women who are not as strong as I am.

Women driven off here or scared to post, I can't get my head around the fact MN thinks this is ok.

May I also have the directions to the other place please? Thank you.

I hope women dont leave. I know myself and others need their wisdom. If some need to take an understandable mental health break, I hope in future they feel they can return feeling better and stronger. sending tea and cake.

Am staying till I get booted
✌️

I'm sorry I'm not sending the link to the other place from here, there are too many requests. DM me please.

recent post by GeorgeFayne

"I considered myself a "feminist" for most of my adult life, but can honestly say I didn't give much thought to the theory or basis behind that position. I believed in the equality of and the oppression of women, and largely considered feminism in terms of workplace equity, freedom of personal choice, supporting women globally, (including ending religious practices like FGM), etc. I don't suppose I ever sat and pondered the questions: what is a woman? WHY are women oppressed and always have been? Is there such a thing as "feeling" like a woman? What is femininity? What is the difference between sex and gender?

Last year, I started researching the issue of trans kids for clinical reasons, which led to further reading about the transgender rights movement. What I have ended up learning and discovering has changed my perspective on so much, including my own belief system about men, women, and our very sense of being.

In attempting to redefine the meaning of woman to include biological males, women face what I fear may be our greatest threat ever: complete erasure.

Our biology is at the core of this issue, and it matters. Being able to discuss the very definition of woman and WHY we face the oppression we do very much intersects with the idea that men cannot share this. Further, years and years of dedicated work to ensure that women have the protections we need, be it a domestic violence shelter or a separate sporting league, are all in jeopardy (by the inclusion of biological males). How is this not a feminist issue?

Though I'm genuinely frightened of the consequences of further erosion of women's rights, I can credit this debate for helping me to find my voice, my clarity on what it means to be a woman, my resolve in raising children that will understand the difference between gender and sex, (and work to eliminate the trappings of such), and has prompted me to deeply consider how I can help my class globally to fight patriarchal oppression. Thank you to this forum for helping this baby feminist "find her wings!"

Don't be silenced. In the words of MLK, "our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.""

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3286940-Why-are-trans-things-discussed-in-Feminism-section-not-a-separate-topic-or-have-I-missed-something?msgid=78929100#78929100

This is a really sorry state of affairs. It was MN that opened my eyes to what was actually going on and I'm thankful for that. I'm a tough old boot so it doesn't affect my mental health, it just makes me fucking furious.

Can I please have a message for the other place? I don't post much if at all (deleted my account previously) but I do read a lot.