Had a reply from CRUK re "cervix havers"

[ShotsFired]

(Longstanding donor, I emailed them following this article: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/smear-test-campaign-drops-the-word-woman-to-avoid-transgender-offence-263mj7f6s?shareToken=84b68d81ce844a6f55b8e64b9a36757b)

The meat of their reply as follows.

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We want to make it clear that this is not about disengaging women from the screening programme, or eradicating the word women. It’s our duty to make sure that everyone who is eligible for this screening programme knows about it. Research shows that cervical screening prevents at least 2,000 cervical cancer deaths each year in the UK so it is vital that we raise awareness that Cervical cancer develops in anyone who has a cervix.

In addition to this, screening might not be relevant for all women such as those who have had a full hysterectomy. We phrased our information on cervical screening to reflect this. Some women identify as men but still have a cervix, so we wanted to make it clear that they would still need to be aware of the screening programme.

We do always welcome feedback and so I do thank you for getting in touch. We definitely want to ensure that our messaging is as accessible as possible for lots of different audiences and do not want to discourage anyone who has cervix from the screening programme. We will make sure that’s considered for future communications.

Based on this I have now decided to withdraw my donation from CRUK and support a charity that focuses specifically on female gynae cancers instead.

prostate

Too True
Yes, biological women, however they identify. Why doesn’t the campaign say that?
I doubt any transman is deluded enough to think they have testicles and prostate, and I doubt any transwoman is deluded enough to think they have a cervix, and if they are, they only need be politely told that this does not apply to them.
How many people who have a cervix don’t realise they have a cervix?
How many of those women deserve to get cancer and possibly die because they don’t realise this applies to them, because they have been excluded from the campaign directly aimed at them because of the precious gender feels of very few individuals who will be doubtless all to aware of their own biology?
Cervical cancer is devastating, and deadly.

Popchyk

That's just ridiculous. What is wrong with them?

Popchyk that is so completely ludicrous. While men can get breast cancer (and I agree that should not simply be focused on women), men cannot get uterine cancers. Just no. They have seriously fucked up on this one.

Some women identify as men but still have a cervix, so we wanted to make it clear that they would still need to be aware of the screening programme.

The paradox here is that it is transactivists who have pushed to change sex on NHS records! It is they who have ensured that transmen aren't automatically called for screening.

Maybe my phone works differently to yours. I'm just seeing a list with clicky links, including a link to 'women's cancers'

I have written to CRUK to ask them to explain the anomaly.

No response yet.

They could say Women and transmen

@Popchyk dammit, I am cross I didn't spot that list myself before I replied to them this morning. I did point out they hadn't commented on my original mention of men not being called "prostate havers" though.

I am going to start donating to the Eve Appeal (eveappeal.org.uk/):
The Eve Appeal is the only UK national charity raising awareness and funding research into the five gynaecological cancers – womb, ovarian, cervical, vulval and vaginal.

Yes, you need to click on the specific type of cancer Random.

So if you click on the Prostate cancer link for example you'll get the text that I copied upthread.

Here is what I see when I click on 'women's cancers'. It has a further list of cervical,ovarian etc below.

Gosh, I'm finding it difficult to peruse the website and find a page that does not mention women. I feel for you guys.

Random on the list of types of cancer there is an alphabetic list. Which seems to be invisible to you.

List of Cancer Types

If you click on Cervical Cancer link you get the explanation:

Cervical cancer is when abnormal cells in the lining of the cervix grow in an uncontrolled way. The cervix is the lower part of the womb. It is the opening to the vagina from the womb. The main symptom is unusual bleeding from the vagina. Finding changes in the cells through screening can help to prevent cancer developing.

If you click on the Prostate Cancer link you get the explanation:

Prostate cancer is cancer that starts in the prostate gland, which is a walnut sized gland at the base of the bladder in men.

The fact that screening is available to anyone with a cervix. That’s just fact.

Yes it is a fact. Advertising has to do more than state facts. The first thing it has to do is be eye-catching to its intended audience.

The whole point is that anyone with a cervix should be screened and it is irrelevant how a person IDs, or even what their birth certificate says. How is it ethical to make this some ideological campaign about the use of the word "woman"?

The paradox here is that it is transactivists who have pushed to change sex on NHS records! It is they who have ensured that transmen aren't automatically called for screening.

You would think that if someone chooses to have their sex changed on their NHS records, that someone would go through with them what that means, or the groups that are encouraging them to do so would also give them the means to understand the consequences. It would be stupid to do it blindly. It is not an informed choice then.

The screening part of PHE now have a comprehensive leaflet.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-population-screening-information-for-transgender-people

Women who do not know they have a cervix - well there are all those girls who bunk off school - there is at the very least one in every year, in every school - they add up. There are those who miss out of schooling because they are ill, have problems at home. There are the ones who go to school and do not engage, the ones who find it difficult to learn and the latin words just don't stick. There are the ones who have learned to be distrustful of authority who don't engage. The list is endless.

These are all women who are probably more at risk of cervical cancer - they keep spouting the message that the biggest risk of cervical cancer is not getting screened - this is a complete misinterpretation of the statistic that women who get cervical cancer are less likely to have been screened than the general population.

I feel for you guys.

Well Random. You've certainly changed your tune from 24 hours ago when you were trying to be everyone's friend by saying you were a porn loving trans inclusionary radical feminist with a best friend who is a trans person and a penchant for chatting about 'Lipsticks'.

My friend, at 40, didn't realise that women peed out of a seperate hole from their vagina - true story. It is not beyond the realms of imagination that there would be women that are ignorant of having a cervix (but know that they are women).

Removing the word "Women" is potentially playing fast and loose with the health of females. "Women, transmen and non-binary females" covers everyone and excludes no-one with a cervix.

Yes becasue when you're doing a messaging campaign about getting potentially life saving tests

The thing to do is not aim it directly at the vast majority of people you are trying to reach

And instead leave the information that your target audience will understand avaialable only by searching your website

But not all of it - references to the group most affected have been removed from portions of the site (work in progress?)

And of course all this applies only to one sex

We have had a lot of people saying this campaign is great as anyone with a cervix is accurate
When others have said, lots of women don't know what or where a cervix is, plus women who don't have English as a first language etc
None have come back to say why it's OK
The only answer I can think of is that if women are too stupid to know they have a cervix then they deserve what they get
I mean, are there other options? The FACT is this will miss it's audience, another FACT is that the messaging for men has not been altered in this way. Women just aren't very important, fucking with their health and lives because you feel like it is fine. From CRUK who continue to refer to "people with a cervix" in the response to the OP, indicating that they are not moving away from this description.

Everyone on the other thread said that "women / anyone with a cervix" would be fine. But they didn't do that. Why? It's not about transmen at all, it's about not being exclusionary to transwomen by linking "woman" and "cervix". So women's health is put at risk in order to avoid upsetting a group who have zero chance of falling victim to the disease in question.

Snappity preaching to everyone else to not be obsessed by the word 'woman' 😂😂😂

What proportion of UK women aged 25-64 know that they have a cervix? It could be worth asking CRUK what research they've done to ascertain this. After all, presumably they would not have made this change without due diligence ...??

Yes, when I click the link on your post, I see the alphabetic list, and if you scroll down, you find 'women's cancers' which I posted upthread. Then if you click on 'cervical cancer' - I concede it doesn't say woman. (although it still says woman on the page. Pic attached).

Then if you click on the 'find out what cervical cancer is' link on the cervical cancer page, it has further information, which states:

The cervix is the lower part of the womb, also calledthe neck of the womb. The womb and the cervix are part of a woman's reproductive system.

So basically, yes. In one paragraph, on one page about cervical cancer, it does not say woman. But it does say woman everywhere else.

I have worked (briefly, and years ago) in public health around sexually transmitted diseases.

We absolutely researched who the at risk groups were and targeted them very specifically.

I expect it's likely that transmen might have additional barriers to accessing smears (even more than the barriers many women have which are not inconsiderable). Targeting them with a specific campaign reassuring about pronouns and saying ways to make them feel as comfy as poss during the procedure & etc would be good. In ADDITION to the mass standard campaigns targeted at women.

CRUK are one of the biggest charities in the country, I am sure they can afford to do this (and it is what they should be doing - one size fits all is a poor approach). In fact they should be targeting many different groups in many ways but that doesn't seem to be their plan of attack right now.

I mean it's a tweet FFS

Could they not afford 2?

Kettle that was sarcasm. Im sorry if you didn't pick it up. Although I do feel for you guys. I sympathise and agree with much of the movement. I just dislike seeing inaccuracies in reporting. It doesn't do anyone any favours.
Also yes I still am a porn loving trans inclusionary radical feminist.