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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ministers commit to preserving sex-based exemptions

413 replies

EmpressOfSpartacus · 24/06/2018 07:53

Open access link: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ministers-put-curbs-on-trans-rights-7zx2cbh2j?shareToken=71ea2e364a4682a6395af2056695238d

OP posts:
Damnthatonestakentryanother2 · 27/06/2018 14:57

HerFemaleness
Case in point. If there was no evidence that the individual in the toilet was trans or seeking to transition, there would be no offence in removing them from a female only area.
Yes, there would. There is no law that excludes men from ladies toilets or vice versa. It is difficult to imagine how the security guard might "remove" someone without committing an assault, or using g threatening behaviour.... ergo, a criminal offence.

Trans activists are telling women that we must always assume that a man in a woman's toilet or changing area is trans.
On the contrary, I (and I think most others) have been pointing out (repeatedly, every time you post this straw man argument) that any man can use ladies'loos. They don't need to put on a wig or a dress or change their name or get a GRC to do it. That is why all this fuss about the GRC is so ridiculous: it doesn't make a shred of difference to who can go into which loo!

We must not question his presence there and to do so is to commit an offence. Trans activists tell us that there isn't a clash between trans and women's rights, but here you have it spelled out to you in black and white.
I can see no clash, and so far no-one has been able to show me one. I don't want rapists or pervs in the loo that I'm using any more than you do -- particularly as (statistically) I am at more risk of violence from them than you are.

jellyfrizz · 27/06/2018 16:15

Might be worth keeping an eye out for the answer to this:

www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Lords/2018-06-26/HL8984/

jellyfrizz · 27/06/2018 16:19

Also found this:

The Government will publish the consultation on the Gender Recognition Act before summer recess. We have assessed the impact of consulting on reforming the gender recognition process as part of our Public Sector Equality Duty.

Here: www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2018-06-19/155328/

ballsballsballs · 27/06/2018 16:37

Damn do you have statistics for your claim that you're at more risk of violence than other posters?

Pratchet · 27/06/2018 17:20

Does it help if I have statistics that they aren't?

arranfan · 27/06/2018 17:50

Sheila Jeffreys The politics of the toilet: A feminist response to the campaign to ‘degender’ a women's space (it's a pdf that opens in the browser).

A good overview of the history of women's lavatories, some statistics, and thoughtful discussion.

ballsballsballs · 27/06/2018 17:57

Awesome Pratchet Grin

Imnobody4 · 27/06/2018 18:21

Damnthatonestakentryanother2
There is no law that excludes men from ladies toilets or vice versa. It is difficult to imagine how the security guard might "remove" someone without committing an assault, or using g threatening behaviour.... ergo, a criminal offence
The staff member would be entitled to remove a man in the women's toilets. It's clearly signed and refusal to leave when asked could be a breach of the peace. Just as any customer behaving in an anti social manner could be removed from private premises.

Snappity · 27/06/2018 18:27

Those statistics are meaningless because the total trans population used to calculate them includes those who cross dress for a few hours a week in the safety of their own home or a trans venue who are obviously at low risk and are only visibly trans for a few hours a week.

Pratchet · 27/06/2018 18:35

Snappity: those people come under the trans umbrella. Figures for trans populations are taken from Wikipedia, where all sections trans-related are written by transadvocates. If you have a problem with those statistics please take it up with them. I know that Natacha Kennedy is a Wiki editor and may be able to help you with this.

I attach the Stonewall trans umbrella.

Ministers commit to preserving sex-based exemptions
Theinconstantgardener · 27/06/2018 18:38

jellyfrizz
Thanks for that. I was wondering when it was going to be published. I had 26th June in my head for some reason

LastTrainEast · 28/06/2018 20:40

Snappity, how would you calculate the statistics? 100% of those assaulted are assaulted?

How are statistics for women calculated. Are they not based on all women?

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