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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Ministers commit to preserving sex-based exemptions

413 replies

EmpressOfSpartacus · 24/06/2018 07:53

Open access link: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ministers-put-curbs-on-trans-rights-7zx2cbh2j?shareToken=71ea2e364a4682a6395af2056695238d

OP posts:
YesItsADebate · 24/06/2018 23:09

Phone! Bleeding phone died! Not me!

spontaneousgiventime · 24/06/2018 23:09

Bear Gonna send a teddy to give you a big hug, cos you're a Star

YesItsADebate · 24/06/2018 23:13

Anyway, @SwearyG does most of the hard work. I just turn up in stupid outfits. Although, someone was the one who bought nipple pasties. Which aren’t edible Sad

Ereshkigal · 24/06/2018 23:20

Wouldyoujudgeme

We always enjoy our Erasure on MN ;)

What was even more amusing was that before that video came on there was an advert for some music by a person who had the same name as a troll banned the other day.

Ereshkigal · 24/06/2018 23:21

They never bothered to tell us what they intended to do to women's rights last time they repealed and replaced the laws that protected women with the Equality Act in 2010.
This time we need to speak up and be heard.

Absolutely.

YesItsADebate · 24/06/2018 23:22

The Independent has now picked this up: here.

AngryAttackKittens · 24/06/2018 23:25

And already the comments are full of biology don't real. Sex is Hawaii!

LastTrainEast · 24/06/2018 23:37

My post was deleted for suggesting that as a man I'd support a man using the men's toilets no matter what he was wearing. I will still support that over MNHQs objections as it is the right thing to do.

LastTrainEast · 24/06/2018 23:38

... and over the objections of the jumped up little prick who complained.

HappensInHumans · 24/06/2018 23:45

Flowers ManFriday, Amy and Sweary

HappensInHumans · 24/06/2018 23:50

The Independent links your petition.

The mail is also reporting. www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5880533/Women-allowed-bar-transgender-people-female-changing-rooms-toilets-ministers.html?login

Pratchet · 24/06/2018 23:55

It added: 'Providers of women-only services [can choose not to] provide services to trans individuals, provided it is objectively justified on a case-by-case basis

This is just not bloody good enough

seafret · 25/06/2018 00:40

Just read the comments on then Indy article and a few things drew my attentionto me. I will put them here if Ok as I have an ilness that means I wont be able to do it tomorrow. Perhaps if useful someone will pick it up and or ignore as appropriate!!

One poster on the comments (a transwoman I understand) referred to there being a penalty for false declaration of self ID of up to 2 years in prison for perjury: Its one of those things that gets trotted out as supossed reasurance. but it got me thinking, that on what basis exactly could someone be accused of not having transitioned and how would it be proved that they had not? Iam googling but yet to find the answers. So by gender stereotypes one presumes and I would like to know exaclty how it could/ would be enforced or assessed, as like with the EA stuff, it is of no use if it cannot be enforced.

Also, there is mis-information going around saying that the EA only allows sex segragation in a few exceptional circumstances and elsewhere there is a blanket right to female spaces - it doesn't. It allows single sex spaces anywhere where an argument can be made that sex segregation is a proportionate means of acheiveing a legtimate aim.

And I believe 'case by case' means situation by situation, not necessarily person by person.

Anyway, also my huge thaks to all you great women fighting for all of this. Star Star i will carry on googling for an answer to the false delcaration stuff.

Pratchet · 25/06/2018 00:42

Thanks sea, hope you feel well tomorrow x

seafret · 25/06/2018 00:43

*sorry, that there is a 2 year jail term for a false declaration of something - may be a GRA or self ID (which we dont have here so I dont know why they are referring to it) Sorry I cannot fathom what they are referring to and obviously there are no links to sources!

AngryAttackKittens · 25/06/2018 00:44

Also there are a growing number of young women who transitioned and then detransitioned. Legal penalties for changing their minds and coming to peace with their own bodies? Really? Someone thought that was the road to go down?

seafret · 25/06/2018 00:49

Thank you Pratchet :) I cant tell you what it means to me to have some excellent women in my life - even if only virtually!

LightofaSilveryMoon · 25/06/2018 01:14

AAK:
Legal penalties for changing their minds and coming to peace with their own bodies? Really? Someone thought that was the road to go down?

That was one the points I tried to query when responding to the Scottish consultation. What happens, when you change your mind, after swearing in law that you are a woman for ever, and not a man? (Even though you still have a penis.)

What happens if you change your mind? Are you fined or incarcerated?

I've changed my mind on loads of things. Still biologically female and therefore a woman, though!

jgrobinson · 25/06/2018 03:35

Scottish Consultation raised the possibility of giving up to 3 changes of gender in your life time.

Even this won't be flexible enough for a genderfluid person like Pips Bunce, who could go through that in a week.

EmpressOfSpartacus · 25/06/2018 05:00

And infinity! And beyond!

You may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist....

If sex is Hawaii, what's Maui?

OP posts:
Kyanite · 25/06/2018 06:34

The Tories say a lot of things but then go on and do the opposite.

Pratchet · 25/06/2018 07:22

Can I ask the experts pls. All the legal victories in the seventies and eighties against sex discrimination - do we lose those, if we lose the EA? Say the EA was amended, or there was a precedent, so that the word 'sex' no longer meant 'sex' but instead meant 'gender'. It that all those hard won rights gone, just like that?

Pratchet · 25/06/2018 07:24

Currently dealing with a full on conscious refusal to protect the characteristic 'sex', is the reason I ask.

Pratchet · 25/06/2018 07:35

Don't worry Rowan has posted a helpful link elsewhere

LangCleg · 25/06/2018 09:00

Also there are a growing number of young women who transitioned and then detransitioned. Legal penalties for changing their minds and coming to peace with their own bodies? Really? Someone thought that was the road to go down?

Exactly!