Asking people to use preferred pro-nouns is abelist and discriminatory - what affects your ability to comply?

[DJLippy]

I wanted to start a thread because I am really going to struggle to stay within Mumsnet talk guidelines.

I struggle to use preferred pro-noun's with those who I genuinely don't believe are the sex they claim to be. Because I have dyspraxia pro-noun policing creates a barrier for my fluency. I have to stop and think to change the pro-noun. I can go back and edit my post for 'mistakes' to comply but I miss out on pro-nouns (again because of my disability.)

I have spoken to those with autism and they've told me similar things - that they genuinely find it difficult to lie.

I also think that it is difficult for those for whom English is a second language. Un-learning sub-conscious grammar structures is hard enough for English people - I can only imagine how much more difficult it must be for those from other countries.

I think this is a real issue when Mumsnet creates a three strike rule. I have stopped posting since the new rule change because I honestly and truly do not mean to break rules - I can't abide by this code and I don't always have the mental energy to police my sub-conscious like this.

Does anybody else have a reason (other than the fact that they don't agree) that they find it difficult to follow the new language laws? Is it right that social media platforms and public institutions create more barriers for those who are already disadvantaged?

Anyway.

I'll repeat. Do you have any advice for the disabled mners on the thread?

Most countries which criminalise same sex relationships also criminalise cross-dressing and gender variance. LGBT people are united in their struggles in many countries.

You mean the ones that enforce rigid stereotypes and advocate transitioning away the Gay? Those countries?

"I'll repeat. Do you have any advice for the disabled mners on the thread?"

Send evidence to MN of disability and ask for a reasonable adjustment

"Women’s equality is endangered if TW are treated in the same way as women. In those circumstances it is proportionate to treat TW as men. In order to make that argument we have to be able to use the appropriate vocabulary."

Suggesting that trans women are a danger to women is a sweeping generalisation.

Suggesting that trans women are a danger to women is a sweeping generalisation.

That's not what she said. She said 'Women’s equality is endangered'.... completely different thing.

Endangering equality

Reducing opportunity, causing women to self exclude, ironically obstructing the inclusion of women in society, exposing women to safeguarding risks, impinging on privacy and dignity

Suggesting that trans women are a danger to women is a sweeping generalisation.

Suggesting that males are a danger to women is a sweeping generalisation but we still segregate. You've mentioned the range of identities under the trans umbrella, & campaigning groups like Stonewall appear to be demanding the same rights for all of them. There are high profile examples of people who identify as transwomen while still presenting as male and of transwomen with a history of violence. How are women supposed to differentiate?

Snappity wrote "Send evidence to MN of disability and ask for a reasonable adjustment"

Hmmm. So people with disabilities have to prove they are disabled in order to access adjustments and the protections they are legally entitled to - but anyone can declare themselves trans and demand to be treated in a protected way. Why are we not allowed to ask for evidence that someone is genuinely trans before we allow them those adjustments?

"Hmmm. So people with disabilities have to prove they are disabled in order to access adjustments and the protections they are legally entitled to - but anyone can declare themselves trans and demand to be treated in a protected way. Why are we not allowed to ask for evidence that someone is genuinely trans before we allow them those adjustments?"

What you should be asking is why nobody else offered practical advice to the OP.

Why are we not allowed to ask for evidence that someone is genuinely trans before we allow them those adjustments?

Exactly what I was wondering.

Why are the TRAs so keen on us sending paperwork - birth certs and now disability evidence - to mnhq?

I have already said I will happily do both, if mnhq ask for it. I mean it would be weird, but I have the paperwork proving I am a) born female - according to my 30 odd year old original BC and b) asd, so

More than that, why do I have to share personal medical information with a perfect stranger in order to be able to voice an opinion.

Are there any restrictions on what TRAs can say? Or call us? I doubt it very much.

Not that I’m reticent to share that I’m autistic, I’m not ashamed. I’m just not going to be bullied into sharing the exact details of my DX for anyone.

Don’t share your DX

MNHQ just need to address this question head on. What reasonable adjustments will they be making and how will they ensure they don’t discriminate?

They need to engage

I mean mnhq (at the levels that have access now, post GDPR) already know my real name as I take part in product testing.

Weird how Emma claimed to still have friends at hq though, while TRAs want us (as I said irrelevant for me, but less so for others) to send in documented proof of who we are and now our bloody medical details...

It is interesting, isn't it?

If someone who you know to be hostile to you suggests that you send dox anywhere, don't do it.

No I wouldn’t share it, I’m irritated that it’s even being mooted that in order to speak freely we should share private dx. Not irritated, really fucking pissed off.

If someone can identify as whatever they like and expect us all to fall in line giving out our personal information, they can run up my ribcage for all I care. They’re not getting it.

Seeing as 98% of sexual offences, and the majority of violent crimes are committed by males it is hardly a “sweeping generalisation” and to suggest that is gaslighting.

What you should be asking is why nobody else offered practical advice to the OP.

I believe there has been practical advice offered in various places upthread.

What you should be asking is why nobody else offered practical advice to the OP.

See the deleted posts upthread? Those are people like you telling the autistic how to manage their disability.

Why should I ask that anyway? The op asked for people with similar experience as well, and I'm one of them.

Some of the more useful advice was to MNHQ rather than the OP tbf eg
'Please make sure you refer your lawyers to sections15,20,21,22,26 and 27 of the Equality Act.'