Hostelling Scotland allows men to self ID as women and have access to women's dorms and shower rooms

[leyat]

ManFriday have a piece up about Hostelling Scotland allowing men to have full access to women's dorms and showering facilities - also without informing women that this is the case - so long as these men say they are women when they check in, effectively giving predatory men easy access to women where we are most vulnerable. Which is not only putting women in danger, but also now many women are going to have to self exclude, and since this is budget accommodation it will most likely disproportionately affect poorer women as well....manfridayuk.org/2018/06/15/a-scottish-hostelling-experience/

How lovely of them. I wonder how often this will be like the many times my friend and I were wanked at in mixed (only choice) hostel dorms when we went inter railing for 9 months, 18 years ago?

Just waiting for a naïve 16 year old person (born female) to check into the male dorm …..

Written

Not thought this through have they? It's what happens when you try to please all the people all of the time.

Used mix sex hostel dorms and bathrooms in the past with mixed results and did encounter a few dodgy intimidation guys you knew to keep at a distance. Men can be such creeps, been groped, threatened, assaulted on buses, trains, streets and perved over and intimidated in a mixed bathroom by a group of men and even by hotel staff. There are lots of fucked up predatory, entitled creepy men out there.

I chose to use mixed as was often in cheaper dumpy hostels - that’s different from women and girls thinking they’re signing up for female only dorms etc.

interesting illustriously.... my understanding from what someone else said about EA, is that by charging extra for single sex you are discriminating given "sex" is protected....

Ah sorry, I've just checked - Mixed & Female rooms are the same price...

It's my dodgy memory...

Thanks illustru .... so looks like Scotland YHA has got the right approach - at least in one hostel. Guess it will all then come down to numbers but good to know they took this approach...

Oh, no.

Here is my reply from Hostelling Scotland. Its a bit of a non reply I feel. Saying they have female only accommodation doesn't really address the issue of self ID

Many thanks for your email. At Hostelling Scotland our number one priority is the safety and comfort of all our guests.As an organisation open to all, we provide guests with a flexible choice of shared accommodation, private and family rooms. Please be assured that all of our hostels provide female only accommodation.Our employees are trained to take a sensitive approach to the needs of our guests. We have procedural guidance in place to ensure we offer everyone a safe and welcoming environment throughout their stay.I hope that the above has addressed your concerns

What’s their definition of female though?

Write back.

Thank you for your reply. However as recently the terms female and Male seem to be rather confused in their usage I will require further clarification.
I am still confused over whether a female only dorm would include only (use whatever term we are allowed to whisper for women these days that’s unambiguous) ? So please can you clarify that under NO circumstances would a (female, whatever unambiguous term is allowed) traveller be expected to share a sleeping or washing space with a (use whatever term we are allowed to these days for the acronym we cannot use.)
I’m not sure what you mean by a sensitive approach - please can you clarify that as well? Sensitive to whose needs exactly? Please clarify in unambiguous biological terms if possible.
Then I’d quote the equality act and remind them that legally they ARE allowed to discriminate on the basis of sex here, and that if they have been briefed otherwise it’s possibly incorrect.

I would then ask if a full risk assessment had been done on allowing unisex dorms and if their insurance provider was aware and in agreement with any extra potential risks identified by removing the same sex provision allowed as per EA2010.

Aren’t words FUN!

Thats great Bowlofbabelfish I will . Thanks

And then I’d contact their insurance provider as well. Because I’m like that

Excellent Bowls

Sock it to them Theinconstant

I grew up living in youth hostels in Scotland as my parents were youth hostel wardens- we had our own quarters though.

I don;t remember any weirdness or complaints and yes we did have male and female dorms, as well as couples and family rooms.

I wonder if in practice would they allocate a trans person a single / small room, to themselves perhaps, is that what they mean in the message above? However I think those still used the shared showers etc, but things are different these days and they seem to have more modern facilities possibly with their own facilities attached to a room perhaps.

Thing is, things can get busy though...

If you don't like it, don't go

Women. Don't think you have the right to change the man-made world so that you do like it and can go

This is exactly how men have always kept women out of the public sphere. Make it unsafe, uncomfortable and hostile or even dangerous to women and keep them out - they'll stay in the kitchen making sandwiches and leave public space and power, to men.

And we're being told in no uncertain terms, that we have no right to change it. We have no right to make public space safer, more comfortable, more welcoming of women. We're bigoted for expecting to be able to have the freedom to leave our homes and go out into the world and be able to find some spaces which are free from men and therefore probably safe for us.

So in future young women won't be able to go backpacking and youth hostelling, because they won't feel safe.

And that's how misogynists like it. Women feeling unsafe.

#WeSeeYou

I've just emailed them - I'll let you know their response. I'm furious!

Thanks hairy. If anyone wants to contact their public liability insurance here's the details Hostelling Scotland sent me.

Coming back to this thread as DD and some friends are arranging a weekend in a Scottish YHA in the female dorm, all 18. Their website says everyone needs ID which must match the details on booking. We've contacted the relevant hostel to check and they confirmed they do ask, I don't want her taking her passport there so it will be Citizencard. I know documents can be changed with very little proof but its different to the poster here at no point asked for ID. It would weed out men essentially using female identity only as suits, though its still not perfect. Alternatively they could say female means exactly that, in the definition understood until a few years ago.

Depends what sort of id though doesn't it? They do not specify photographic id or official, just suitable which is totally open to interpretation and could mean a Boots reward points card.

Also the rooms are listed as single gender or mixed gender.

There is no mention of single sex rooms that I can see.

There is nothing stating that women are protected by single sex dorms and everything to suggest that gender is the qualifier, which as we know means fuck all.

What was that advice on the guide thread, sturdy pjs?

www.hostellingscotland.org.uk/media/3346/hostelling-scotland-ts-and-cs.pdf

1.6Arrival
a.Hostelling Scotland require all guests on arrival to provide identification when staying at all youth hostels. This identification must match the name of the person making the booking.
b.Suitable identification will be requested and must be presented on arrival prior to checking-in.
c.If we believe a guest has picked accommodation that is not appropriate to their identity, in those rare instances we may needto make changes to a booking; however, we will do everything we can to provide suitable alternative accommodation in such circumstances

2.1Youth HostelFacilities

c.Multi-share rooms are normally for single-gender occupancy, but private rooms can be single-gender or mixed-gender.
d.Hostelling Scotland accepts no responsibility for extra costs incurred by any person, driver or group leader not willing to share room facilities with others drivers, group leaders or persons.
e.Hostelling Scotland reserves the right to amend rooming lists until the time of arrival.

Hostelling Scotland now say "It is important to stress that all of our hostels provide female only accommodation." - based on photographic ID (passport or driving licence).

There's an update here: forwomen.scot/26/11/2018/hostelling-scotland-caledonian-sleeper-northlink-ferries-update/

I feel so sad. When lo was a baby and had no choice about what I talked about, I did warn her that women’s and girls rights could be taken away in her lifetime.

I think being able to change your sex maker on official documentation is bizarre? Self I.D hasn't been agreed?
A GRC should be compulsory in order to do that. What about female sex based protections? Grrr

I agree. They shouldn't be able to get a passport or driving licence as "female" until they have a GRC.

The government departments concerned are basically acting like self ID is already the law.