Trans rights supporters -can we please unite on the cervical cancer issue

[speakingwoman]

I’m very worried about the cervical cancer issue.
If you are an advocate of trans rights but believe that cancer research should address its screening calls to “women” please do say so here.

To everyone else, if this is going to fail can we just let it fail quietly please?

There are some things just as important as conflicts of rights, people not dying of undetected cervical cancer is one of these.

If I get any support I will write to Cancer Research.

Is there a petition to CRUK to have the word woman reinstated in their CC campaign?

If the exclusion of the word women isn't trying to appeal to transpeople who are they trying to appeal to or not offend? Women who no longer have a cervix?

The word woman should absolutely be kept in but I agree that including “and anyone with a cervix” is fine.

women, and trans folk with a cervix" should do just fine

Agree

What about changing it to ‘adult human female’?

People who have a cervix are women.

Some people with cervices disagree with you; should they not be made aware of their being at risk of cervical cancer? Or must you remind them how stupid you think they're being before you find their lives worth saving?

I disagree SMG. I think treating transmen like this is suggesting they are too stupid to know that they need smears.

I think the cervix wording is ok if used as part of several campaigns. We need to get the smear numbers up and to do that you need multiple targeted campaigns:

Transmen - you still need a smear!

Women - have a smear! (Lower literacy/biology)

Multi language campaigns.

You can request a female nurse (A concern for many including some religions and abuse sufferers).

You can have someone in with you.

Having a smear does not take your vaginity. And even if you're not sexually active you still need one (risks are much reduced but still possible)

I do think the campaign is good in that it does the step by step of what happens. And what it feels like. Should maybe mention lube is used to make it easier too! But there's a lot of people don't know what a cervix is, including the "we don't talk about things like that!" generation, so we need to make it clearer.

Absolutely nothing wrong with cervical checks being phrased as for women and trans men with a cervix and prostate checks as to men and transwomen with a prostrate.

Might actually help transmen and transwomen ask about their anatomy post surgery or hormone treatment as I get the impression too many are in denial of physical reality and what is actually possible these days.

It may not be obvious for those who physically transition either - because many might assume removal of either occurs during transition - to their detriment.

I had no idea about the prostrate thing as it was never explained by anyone. When I found out I asked my doctor. Why wouldn't you?

Since I went through the medical checks required for transition as in and needed to get a GRC today it has never been off my records so there was always a check.

So I know that risk is far lower but still needing to be added to routine blood tests now and then.

I have always made a point of ensuring GPs know I am transsexual on registering at a new practice as it can take time for them to catch up or even bother to read the file. It is surely just common sense.

As an aside it also shows another negative of the push for self ID and the removal of medical gatekeeping.

It puts the onus on the patient, not their doctor, to ensure correct facts are on file for others to see when potentially important.

I really do not think that is wise the way things are going.

women, and trans folk with a cervix" should do just fine

You see, this what baffles me.

We are not even asking for CRUK to just put women. But actually include and add one more word!

Will this cost millions?

Will it take up a huge amount more space?

Two more letters than 'men' which they have no problem including for prostate cancer campaigns.

Is this going to collapse the whole of CRUK?

What possible justification could there be other than the word 'woman' itself offends 0.03 of a population?

And they pander to it.

I'd like to know if it is trans people who are those that do not take up their offers for smears. I will look at the specifics of the stats.

If it is, then perhaps that partly explains it. But why not then explain this is who they are targeting and make the campaign specific to them....?

Homefromthehills - thank you for sharing your personal account. Your voice is welcome and necessary.

.....
In this particular instance, it seems to me that everyone is being done a disservice. No matter our political beliefs, surely none of us want people to be unnecessarily excluded from anything relevant to their bodies that will help keep them healthy?

Biology cannot be identified out of.

Live however you choose, without bringing harm to others, but please, stay safe and be healthy.

Don’t let your desire to gain woke cookies put you, your family members or your friends lives at risk.

Kettle, I was routinely asked for smears and mammograms and the first time I was asked for either I talked to my doctor to ask what to do.

Was told mammograms are essential and cervical smears not needed and was told the records would reflect that need henceforth.

And did.

This was years ago.

I am sure with sense and thought it is much easier to do this today.

but it will need transpeople to live in the real world and not just the one controlled by self validation.

I advised an intersex woman , who was one of the leading campaigners on cervical screening , and faught tirelessly against cuts to G&O services

she came on here and was destroyed , subsequently she retired from all campaigns , and gave up all her charity work

she was called little bird on here , her and her husband had worked tirelessly for the NHS for decades

our local maternity unit closed , because she was the only woman brave enough to stand up for all women

oh and by the way she was anti self ID

Well personally I don't think you should be able to change your 'gender marker' (natal sex) on your NHS records. Or on your birth certificate.

The only reason we are tying ourselves in knots is because of what has been permitted so far.

The NHS sends invitations to people depending on what sex they are.

Thinking you are the opposite sex or neither sex or even bloody otherkin does not change either reality, or the existence or otherwise of your cervix

I object to the phrase 'transmen' because they are not men. Transpeople is better. It also covers those who have had cervical cells implanted with penile inversion.

but it will need transpeople to live in the real world and not just the one controlled by self validation.

Exactly. Thank you homeonthehills.

Yes. And if TRA give permission to relax the obsession with validation, the problem would disappear.

Truly inclusive language for cervical cancer would be "women, trans men and anyone with a cervix" . For prostate cancer "men, trans women and anyone who has a prostate gland"
I agree.
It's a health and medical issue.

If people have an issue with badic biological facts being used for medical isses then I'm afraid for the future.

HomeFROMthehills.

foxy

Soooooo

Back the thread, do you think it should stay as it is ...just mention women.....or mention women and those with a cervix

If people have an issue with badic biological facts being used for medical isses then I'm afraid for the future.

But they do, in the present, Maisy.

I should say that the requesting of these tests are NOT a consequence of the Gender Recognition Act and legal change of sex in there.

That only occurred in 2004 and under 3000 transwomen have this status. It would not be an issue as I bet most of them are transsexuals who have done what I did and stopped needless test requests wasting resources and ensured necessary ones were sent.

In any case I was invited to tests long before the GRA was passed so it definitely was based on your medical record noting you were transsexual not the passing of the GRA.

Personally I do not want to have mammograms. This is a personal decision for me. I have opted out of the system with the proviso always that I can request one later if I choose to do so.

I also have a male friend who will never have a prostate marker test, he has private insurance.

Thanks for replies.

Everyone seems happy for CRUKto use the word “woman” or “women”. I am unsure though about two posters, namely @tinycitrus and @garam. If those two posters are happy to confirm that they support CRUK using the term “woman” or “women” I would be grateful.

I can then write to CRUK and we can all go back to disagreeing with each other.

To those posters who are trans - would you be willing to write to CRUK about this?

I will talk to Debbie Hayton about that suggestion Kettle. Seems a good idea.

How do women usually find out about smear tests?

I can't remember when, where and how I found out beyond I sort of seemed to always know about them.